Spark Plugs Stuck But Finally Out

[TG924]

Picked up a 99 GSX as a project. Owner said the car was overheating after replacing the head gasket. We replaced heater core, water pump radiator, hoses, thermostat and cap. With some advice here I wanted to do a compression test then leak down. Never thought plugs could get stuck this bad! The plastic casing surround the plug was melted to the plugs. This is how I got them out and what they looked like after.....The first pic is looking down the plug cylinder after I broke off the metal connection.

This is the pic of the plug mentioned after I broke the wire and top half of the plastic shroud around the plug.

After I pulled the metal connector out. The plastic had melted around the plug simply would not come out. I used a long screwdriver with thin blade and a rubber mallet to chip away at the melted mess.

Modified the Shop Vac using an old hose from the heater core we had replaced. The hose was just the right size to fit in the hole to get the pieces out so nothing would fall in. I put the hose in the narrow end of the vac and used some air duct tape to seal it.

I added a pic of the cleaned plug. The last two pics are what the plugs looked like after pulling them. I didn't see antifreeze but I'm not sure I'm experienced enough to notice exactly what it would look like if the plugs were burning antifreeze also.

I have some NGK plugs and wires on the way and will need them to get the car warmed up for the compression test.

Still hoping the head gasket isn't gone but will know soon!

 

[Perkul8r]

The pics of the plug itself are not showing up. But if it got hot enough to melt the plastic for the plug wires in the tube, i am sure there are gonna be issues.

 

[Wil_Own]

If its still overheating and I know you replaced all this stuff just make sure your burbing your colling system so there is no air pockets in it just figured I would let ya know if you have not done it yet

 

[TG924]

I was reading today where someone had replaced just as much as I have and still had overheating. Someone mentioned burping the system. I let it run for about 15 minutes with the cap off putting more fluid in as it started to circulate with heat full on. Is there a better way of "forcing" the air out?

I will check the pics...they show up when I look but will see if I can figure out why you wouldn't be able to see them.

 

[DSM1G90]

Them are "IR" plugs which should be tossed and conventional NGK BPR6ES plugs gapped at .028" be installed.

Things got a bit hot too hot to melt the insulating connector like that...

How I 'burp'the air out of a system is to drill a .050" hole in the T-stat flange and reassemble with the hole at the "12:00" position to allow the 'burping' to be the most effective.

This hole eliminates "airlock"-a condition when the air pressure below the T-stat is cooler than the coolant temperature causing the T-stat not to open, thus allowing overheating until the air is hot enough to open the T-stat, then system 'burps' and returns to normal temperature.

It's quite common of an issue with vertically mounted T-stats. and this overheating issue.

Good luck - DSM

 

[TG924]

I saw a post I believe you had put up once before recommending the NGK 6 for a similar setup and those are the plugs I have coming. I'll be sure to gap them at the .28

I will also put the hole in the t-stat to help out with air lock. Thanks for the advice!

I was reading where someone had also suggested a "block test" from Napa to determine a head gasket problem. It's basically a chemical in a tube that draws air out of the system and if it pulls the gases that a head gasket would leak, the chemical turns from blue to green. Has anyone used that?

 

[ThunderChild]

I saw a post I believe you had put up once before recommending the NGK 6 for a similar setup and those are the plugs I have coming. I'll be sure to gap them at the .28

I will also put the hole in the t-stat to help out with air lock. Thanks for the advice!

I was reading where someone had also suggested a "block test" from Napa to determine a head gasket problem. It's basically a chemical in a tube that draws air out of the system and if it pulls the gases that a head gasket would leak, the chemical turns from blue to green. Has anyone used that?

holy hell that thing got hot. i would perform a leak down test and properly burp your cooling system. that should eliminate the problem. also ensure timing is correct.

good call on the plugs a wires.

 

[007jimmy]

If things got that hot you might not only be looking at a blown headgasket but the head might be warped as well. Seeing the plug boots melted like that is scary.

 

[TG924]

I'll be doing the compression and leak down test tomorrow. If the head is warped, that's something I haven't read up on at this point. I'll do some research on it but am looking at machining or replacing? ............Ok, I started to read up on the head warp. It looks like my steps should be to do the compression test, do the leak down test and see if I have a problem. If I do have a problem, tear it down then check the head for warp. If it is warped, then either machine or replace?

 

[2gnt99]

If the head is warped it will definitely have to be either replace or machined, it may be cheaper to just have it machined.

A leak down test will definitely give you more insight to whether it is the head or not.

 

[TG924]

Thanks guys! I will let you know how the tests turn out. Plugs and wires should be here tomorrow so I can get that done.

Just so I'm prepared, if I find a warped head and want to get it machined is there someone here on DSM that anyone would recommend or simply take it to a local shop? I do a lot of traveling between Richmond, VA and State College - Johnstown, Pa and could take it to a recommended DSM'er anywhere along that route if that's the better way to go. After seeing what the last mechanic did or didn't do and the kind of help I have received from you guys, I trust the DSM'ers.

 

[DSM1G90]

Heads are easier to warp due to their aluminum content ... (and add the 'zero' beind the '28' to make it '.028. Otherwise, that's almost a quarter inch of gap ... )

Plus, and getting that hot to melt boots makes one wonder if the head is definitely warped..and warpage can also come from not loosening the head bolts in their respective sequence, in as well as their tightening sequence and step torquedown procedures.

 

[TG924]

Heads are easier to warp due to their aluminum content ... (and add the 'zero' beind the '28' to make it '.028. Otherwise, that's almost a quarter inch of gap ... )

Plus, and getting that hot to melt boots makes one wonder if the head is definitely warped..and warpage can also come from not loosening the head bolts in their respective sequence, in as well as their tightening sequence and step torquedown procedures.

Thanks, will be sure I have that "0" in there.

I had got the car from a mechanic who had just got it to run. He said he put a new head gasket on and checked for warp but I guess I'm learning the hard way that I'm better off doing it myself with the help/advice from this forum. I got a write up off the VFAQ and checking to make sure I have the right torque sequence......If I get it down to the head, should I be looking at replacing anything else? Sort of like when doing a water pump. I'm already in there so I may as well put all new belts on, pulley etc.

 

[TG924]

My latest update....had to take care of a small oil leak. The oil pressure switch was leaking so I replaced it. I put the new plugs and wires on. I burped the coolant.

Then I got it up to operating temp to do a compression test. It didn't go well. Cyl. 1 was 120, cyl 2 was 75, cyl 3 was 90 and cyl 4 was 120. It was pretty cold out and I ran it at 1am. Even though I warmed it up, I'm wondering if it cooled too quickly and caused low numbers across the board? Either way, the low numbers for cyl 2 and 3 make me think the head gasket is gone. I'm running it again tomorrow just to be sure. I don't have the gauges for a leak down so I may just get a block test (chemical test) from Napa as another validation. This is my first time working on a car like this and I'm having doubts with my skills in getting it torn down and put back together if I need to fix the head gasket. I did the timing, pulleys and water pump so I'm game for giving this a shot.

Any suggestions on a "kit" for replacing the gasket that may include anything that I need along the way? Or, do I simply get the gasket and bolts? As always, thanks!

 

[DSM1G90]

More sounds like a warped head to have the the middle cylinders be so low. Did you crank the motor around at least six times then locked the dial on the gauge to get your readings?

One trick to check with those middle two is pour a bit of oil down the spark plug holes of those two weak cylinders, then do the compress check again. If pressure suddenly builds, its a ring situation - no change=valves or head warpage.

Have to start over with new gasket and bolts to be sure. But, if you're going that route, get the head checked for flatness and you may have to deck the head, up to a rebuild.

 

[WES_393]

You could always try a quick and dirty leak down test. If your compression tester uses a quick disconnect (aka ARO coupler), you could hook an air compressor to the threaded portion and pump air into the cylinders. You may have to let the compressor build pressure before connecting the hose, but nearly any compressor could push at least 100psi. Once the cylinder is pressurized, check for any air blowing out of the other spark plug holes, bubbles in the coolant, or hissing in the oil cap. If the gasket is blown between cylinders, it should be extremely obvious.

But from the numbers it looks like the head needs to come off. Even if the test was done while the engine was ice cold, the numbers should still be within 5-10% of each other. And I would without a doubt have the head checked out by a machinist. It could be warped, cracked, or even melted in some areas.

For replacement parts, I'd suggest Felpro or Mitsubishi for the gaskets. I believe Felpro does have a "upper gasket set" that contains most of what you'll need, but you could find nearly anything Felpro at Oreilly's. The OE Mitsu parts can be found at STMTuned.com for much cheaper than the Stealership. For the hardware, I'd go with ARP standard studs. The 7-bolt head bolts are torqued to stretch so they can't handle much before allowing the head to lift.

 

[TG924]

More sounds like a warped head to have the the middle cylinders be so low. Did you crank the motor around at least six times then locked the dial on the gauge to get your readings?

One trick to check with those middle two is pour a bit of oil down the spark plug holes of those two weak cylinders, then do the compress check again. If pressure suddenly builds, its a ring situation - no change=valves or head warpage.

Have to start over with new gasket and bolts to be sure. But, if you're going that route, get the head checked for flatness and you may have to deck the head, up to a rebuild.

I cranked the motor until I could hear 5 revolutions. I'll run it again and also pour some oil down the cylinder to get a reading. If I get down to the head, I'll be sure to get it machined. The question I would have is whether any machinist will do or should I find someone familiar with this car type?

You could always try a quick and dirty leak down test. If your compression tester uses a quick disconnect (aka ARO coupler), you could hook an air compressor to the threaded portion and pump air into the cylinders. You may have to let the compressor build pressure before connecting the hose, but nearly any compressor could push at least 100psi. Once the cylinder is pressurized, check for any air blowing out of the other spark plug holes, bubbles in the coolant, or hissing in the oil cap. If the gasket is blown between cylinders, it should be extremely obvious.

But from the numbers it looks like the head needs to come off. Even if the test was done while the engine was ice cold, the numbers should still be within 5-10% of each other. And I would without a doubt have the head checked out by a machinist. It could be warped, cracked, or even melted in some areas.

For replacement parts, I'd suggest Felpro or Mitsubishi for the gaskets. I believe Felpro does have a "upper gasket set" that contains most of what you'll need, but you could find nearly anything Felpro at Oreilly's. The OE Mitsu parts can be found at STMTuned.com for much cheaper than the Stealership. For the hardware, I'd go with ARP standard studs. The 7-bolt head bolts are torqued to stretch so they can't handle much before allowing the head to lift.

Unfortunately my gauge isn't a quick disconnect so I can't hook my compressor up to it. I'm going to grab the right gauges though so I can do a leak down test. I want to start it right away if I have to tear it down so I'm going to check out our local Oreilly's for the Felpro gasket and ARP studs.

I'll post up the results again when I get them in. I'm going to run the compression today dry and wet. It may be tomorrow after work that I do the leak down then start the repairs.

Thanks for all the help and advice! A little bit of support and confidence from you guys goes a long way!

 

[TG924]

Here's the update. I went out and picked up a leak test kit. Cylinder one was losing 57% and the engine coolant was bubbling. From what I read that's a definite head gasket issue. The coolant didn't bubble on any of the other cylinders but I could hear it leaking. I just couldn't tell from where. Cylinder 2 was losing 75%, 3 was losing 90% and 4 was losing 85%. It looks like the head will be coming off...!