SAFC 2 Baseline

[Ppayer38]

Well ive looked around on Tuners, Talk, RRE, and here and cant really find what im looking for... I know every car is a littler different but can somebody point me in the correct direction as far as where the setting should be? Im completely new to SAFC and it came with the car so not by choice!
A little advice on the setup never hurts...
Car:
1998 Eclipse GSX
80,000 miles
180-182 compression
Mods:
14b @ 20psi
Evo III Exhaust Manifold
Emissions Delete
MSD Plug Wires
NGK BR6 Plugs
Stock Exhaust with Manual cutout(Always open haha)
Evo IX FP
Evo IX Injectors
SSAC FMIC
Hard Intake Pipe with KN filter
1g BOV(Recirc)
Hallman Pro MBC
SAFC 2
EvoScan
AEM UEGO Wideband
Autometer 30/30 Boost
Autometer 0-100 Oil PSI
Sorry if I missed anything but that should cover most of everything as far as need to know

This car is going to be a full budget build since all ive got invest rite now is $3000. Goal for the car is mid to low 12's Daily Driven on Safe Tune just moving slowly as far as mods since I wanna max out the 14b
**(I know I found something on Tuners before about an equation involving your injector size and a few other numbers and some other things just cant find it anymore)**

 

[mike96]

do yourself a favor and get an Open Port 2.0 cable... then sell the cable you are using with your evoscan, the SAFC, and the MBC to someone to recoup the cost of the OP2.0... you’ll be much happier, not only will you have full control of your fuel and ignition maps but you can load Ceddy's rom and have gear dependent boost control, launch control, and speed density if you eventually want to go that route. o and did i mention that the OP2.0 cables are only about $180.

 

[aero_sallee]

do yourself a favor and get an Open Port 2.0 cable... then sell the cable you are using with your evoscan, the SAFC, and the MBC to someone to recoup the cost of the OP2.0... you'll be much happier, not only will you have full control of your fuel and ignition maps but you can load Ceddy's rom and have gear dependent boost control, launch control, and speed density if you eventually want to go that route. o and did i mention that the OP2.0 cables are only about $180.

This would be the best advice IMO.

 

[Ppayer38]

You know I have thought of this already not stealing your thunder for the idea but I figured since I am new to tuning these cars it would be in my best intrests to start small and work my way up or am I thinking backwards? Didnt wanna just jump in head 1st and relize that Im sunk you know what I mean?
But this may vary well happen so thanks very much for the advice and confirming what I was thinking

 

[mike96]

You know I have thought of this already not stealing your thunder for the idea but I figured since I am new to tuning these cars it would be in my best intrests to start small and work my way up or am I thinking backwards? Didnt wanna just jump in head 1st and relize that Im sunk you know what I mean?
But this may vary well happen so thanks very much for the advice and confirming what I was thinking

this is where self control cones into play and taking the time to ask questions about things you aren't sure about. go to fast and to hard and things can get ugly quick... but thats not to say you cant screw something up with a SAFC and a MBC either...

 

[Ppayer38]

Well that is a good way to put it....
Do you have any experience with an OP 2.0 cable? Just as far as is it just number that you work with or slider bars or what kind of program would I be working with as far as user friendly?

 

[mike96]

i have the open port 1.3U because i am running an EVO8 ecu in me car, so for me the only difference is that the OP2.0 has the ability to log to SD card where the 1.3 has to be hooked up to a laptop but the program that you tune with is the same. tuning software is free, you can Download EcuFlash here, i would install it and then download Ceddys ROM so you can take a look around and get a feel for what the program is like. there are no sliders or anything like that but it isn't that difficult to make changes. there are a couple of good how to tune links posted up in a couple of the other threads that can come in handy and a hand full of how to tune with ecuflash videos on youtube you can watch as well.

 

[spyderturbo007]

Everyone hating on the SAFC again.

I tuned with one for years and never had any problems. They are straight forward and easy to use. Provided you aren't putting down insane amounts of power, or trying to use huge injectors, they work great.

That said, without a logger, set the SAFC to 0% across both the high and low throttle maps. You don't need to do anything since you have stock injectors, especially if you can't see what's going on inside the ECU.

 

[Ppayer38]

I will see how the funds look after I get done and if I have some left over I will go for the OP 2.0 cable but until then I would like to get some info on SAFC if possible
*Well I am running EvoScan and have Evo IX Injectors so I dont think that 0 is going to work for me haha. I agree as far as saying it looks simple to use and a good starting point for somebody just getting into tuning, im just in need of a little help with it as far as where to start and what to set all the starting parameters at and how to adjust from there....

 

[mike96]

Everyone hating on the SAFC again.

I tuned with one for years and never had any problems. They are straight forward and easy to use. Provided you aren't putting down insane amounts of power, or trying to use huge injectors, they work great.

That said, without a logger, set the SAFC to 0% across both the high and low throttle maps. You don't need to do anything since you have stock injectors, especially if you can't see what's going on inside the ECU.

not exactly hating... SAFC's are an excellent option to tune with in the past or on other platforms where tuning options are limited. they worked grate for a long time on DSM's also... but now there is an alternative to SAFC's that not only gives you full tuning capabilities within the factory ECU but it is cheaper as well. well cheaper for some of us anyway, those of us without flashable ECU's need to make an additional purchase or two. personal experience, I am much happier with ecuflash over the SAFC I had originally in my car.

 

[spyderturbo007]

I will see how the funds look after I get done and if I have some left over I will go for the OP 2.0 cable but until then I would like to get some info on SAFC if possible
*Well I am running EvoScan and have Evo IX Injectors so I dont think that 0 is going to work for me haha. I agree as far as saying it looks simple to use and a good starting point for somebody just getting into tuning, im just in need of a little help with it as far as where to start and what to set all the starting parameters at and how to adjust from there....

Oops, sorry about that. It seems as though I scanned your mod list a little too quickly.

Help me out here, the Evo IX injectors are 560cc's?

With that said, set your TPS trigger points at 30% & 80%, sensor type to Karmen and the arrow pointing in the NE direction. Now you'll want to choose your Ne Points. For now, just spread them out across the entire RPM range evenly. If you have any left over, add them around there area where you reach full spool. Once we get into tuning a little deeper, we'll most likely be making some adjustments to them.

Mathematically, 560cc injectors require a baseline correction of -20%, but I like to start a little richer. I would start at -15% across the low throttle map. I'm not familiar with Evo Scan, so you're responsible for the setup on that one.

Set up your logger to display STFT, LTFT, and RPM. Allow the car to come up to full operating temperature and rev to your first Ne point, let's say 1k. Keep an eye on your FT's and you'll want to make small adjustments to the 1k Ne Point on the SAFC's Lo Throttle map until the FT's add up to 0 +/- 5%. So if the STFT is -3% and the LTFT is +5%, you're all set and can move on to the next Ne Point. Do this up to and including the 4k Ne Point, then copy the value you got for the 4k point across the rest of the Lo throttle map.

That's it, you're all done with closed loop tuning. Then go for a cruise for 10 or 15 minutes just to make sure everything is stable. Once you've done that, let me know and we can move on to the fun stuff, which is open loop.

On a side note, is Evo Scan able to log Lambda or AFR from your UEGO?

 

[Ppayer38]

Ill will get rite on that Tuning and I do appriciate the walk through on this 1...
EvoScan is not able to log the UEGO as far as I know so I just keep a good eye on it and then go from there

I swear I saw a thread somewhere all about 14b's and it had some info on peoples setups and everything and I figured that could be a great place to look but cant find it again!! Have to search harder now

 

[sprmotohooligan]

Ill will get rite on that Tuning and I do appriciate the walk through on this 1...
EvoScan is not able to log the UEGO as far as I know so I just keep a good eye on it and then go from there

I swear I saw a thread somewhere all about 14b's and it had some info on peoples setups and everything and I figured that could be a great place to look but cant find it again!! Have to search harder now

Hey if you find that thread please post up!! I remember finding something like that too, then I lost it into the seemingly never ending realm of Tuners. I'll be following this thread closely, I'm in almost the same situation as you.

 

[Ppayer38]

Well the best thing I can think of is something I found on CarolinaDSM and a guy over there sent me this which deffinetly helps understand alot and explains stuff and RRE has a SAFC guide with some minor setups but am still looking for the exact Thread

Well id post it up but have no idea how to make it work so here is the lin to CarolinaDSM
SAFC 2 Baseline - CarolinaDSM Forums

 

[Rengar18]

Not to derail but am I able to run Ceddys rom on my 97gsx? (stock ECU) ive read that 97 ecu are unable to run it but I thought only the 98/99 Ecus were compatible?

 

[Ppayer38]

I am not sure on this but as far as I know only 98/99 have flashable ECU's so you are out of luck there....

 

[sprmotohooligan]

You need one of the black plastic ECU's to run reflash it with Ceddy

 

[Ceddy]

OP you can log the UEGO WB with EvoScan. But you need to make a serial cable for it.

Instructions -> evolutionm.net - View Single Post - AEM UEGO Serial Cable Instructions

I have no idea why AEM doesn't sell them premade.


Also good to know, the Evo 560s actually flow around 575.




If you don't have your heart set on the SAFC, you should check out EcuFlash, since you already have a 98 ecu. The software is free so you can check it out before you commit to anything.

All you need to change is Injector Size and Latency(Deadtime), and you will be good to go and will have a better tune then the SAFC will allow.

If you know someone nearby with a OpenPort 2.0 cable, you could probably bribe them with a case of beer or something to borrow the cable for 5 minutes.



If you stick with the SAFC you should be able to run in the low 20s for boost, before you hit fuel cut or run out of injector/pump. To high Timing is going to be your main issue so watch/log Knock.

 

[the_mork]

You know I have thought of this already not stealing your thunder for the idea but I figured since I am new to tuning these cars it would be in my best intrests to start small and work my way up or am I thinking backwards? Didnt wanna just jump in head 1st and relize that Im sunk you know what I mean?
But this may vary well happen so thanks very much for the advice and confirming what I was thinking

This thinking IS backwards in my opinion. Not that you're at fault for it, it is an idea that we generally hold about many devices in our lives, that if it does more it must be more complicated.

This is in fact wrong. While there certainly can me more complication involved with the openport cable and ecuflash as long as you stick to the basics and what you know then it is less complicated than the safc because all you'll need to do is change injector deadtime and compensation. In the case of evo8/9 injectors you wouldn't even need to change deadtimes necessarily.

Spyderturbo007 has a reputation as a great tuner with an SAFC and I am certain that it is deserved, and certainly the SAFC is capable of tuning for evo8/9 injectors pretty well. The point of those of us steering you toward changing your tuning solution though is that as you go deeper into tuning you can do a lot more without any more cost including two step, launch control, NLTS, and many other nice things, and further a number of other awesome things with little more investment such as electronic boost control, speed density, nitrous, co2, or water spray, etc. On top of all of that when you're ready to move on to a different fuel like e85, or very large injectors, or any number of other extensive modifications then your tuning system will still be up to it.

 

[Ppayer38]

Ok so im now in trouble and need some quick help just to make the car drivable again since it is my DD and ive gotta get back and forth to work which is about 15miles each way... Gas mileage is not an issue at this point even though I dont want it to be to bad haha

My UEGO o2 sensor burnt the wires on the exhaust and I need to order a new 1 but itll be a week or so before I can do that and somehow my SAFC 2 reset itself and I do not remember any of the setting as far as correction adjustment.. Ive already set all my other settings and Ne-Points just now need some correction %'s to get me by and im sure you guru's can help in someway.

So as for now I have no Wideband to check AFR's and gas mileage is not an issue since I dont drive very far. Low Throttle I know I should pull about 13-15% fuel but is that all the way through the RPM range and will I be ok with that as long as I dont beat on it? How about Hi Throttle applications just incase I do hit 1-5 psi of boost since it is only a little 14b turbo...

Thanks for all the help and info you all can help me with. I will make sure when I get my o2 sensor & tune it this time to make a note on where all my setting are
*Sorry for the long post

 

[spyderturbo007]

Do you still have your logger? If so, you can go back through my post above to get your low throttle settings. As for the high throttle settings, I would go rich just to be sure. Since the mathematical correction is -20%, you might want to go with something around -12% just to be safe. But, until you get a good tune on there, I would stay out of boost.

 

[Ppayer38]

Well all is well and got the car tuned again but I wanted to update this thread for other people who may run into this problem and need a baseline or just got into tuning with SAFC II and want somewhere to start if they are running Evo IX Injectors with a 14b turbo at 18lbs of boost and im running almost perfect 0 LTFT & STFT cruising and WOT AFR is between 10.2-10.7(just trying to keep it from knocking for now until upgraded turbo but still pulls hard)
Throttle setting are 30% and 70%
Low Neo Points
1000-20%
1400-20%
2000-23%
3000-23%
3600-20%
4000-20%
4600-18%
5000-18%
5600-18%
6000-18%
6600-18%
7000-18%
High Neo Points
1000-16%
1400-16%
2000-16%
3000-14%
3600-14%
4000-14%
4600-14%
5000-14%
5600-14%
6000-14%
6600-14%
7000-13%