[RESOLVED] 16g options. Need opinions.

[Dsmj89]

Well i had a good thought about my turbo setup i wanted to go with and decided to go with the infamous evo3 16g ordeal. I don't plan on stepping on my car like i used to with my other dsm, i just want a streetable nice looking dsm with some 'kick' when i need it . I am planning to get a complete 16g kit for my dsm this year and im undecided as to wether i should get the 34mm flapper and inlet/outlet porting options or not and why? Thanks for your opinions and help.

 

[turbodsm18]

With out the flapper you will most likely creep.....I had the flapper and the turbo was ported by FP and I had a heavily ported 2g o2 housing and I still creeped.....But I no longer run that turbo....

That my .02.....

-Kevin-

 

[Dsmj89]

Wow thats crazy. Have you ever thought about an external dump o2 ? I also plan on purchasing an external to help decrease the chance of boost creep.

 

[talonDSMerr]

With the external you shouldn't creep at all, and won't need the 34mm flapper. Just decide whether to put the wastegate on the exhaust manifold or o2 housing. If you have time, port the hot side of the turbo, I would leave the compressor side alone.

 

[oVaBoost]

I have a buddy that had the internal wastegate on his evo316g and didnt creep got it ported and clipped and ran 32psi threw it and still no shaft play. he ran 11.6 1/4 mile on stock engine. but i guess its different based on your luck.

 

[98eclipsekidd08]

If you run higher boost you wont creep ha.

at 20psi my ported e3b16g never crept

 

[habitatguy187]

Very good post on small 16g.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/318980-difference-between-small-16g-big-16g.html

 

[Dsmj89]

Thanks guys for the help.

 

[RyAn007]

Definitely do the porting option, it will slow down but not fully eliminate any boost fluctuation which is no good, having 27 psi and than it drops to 20 by redline does not help any 1/4 mile times at all. PErsonally if I were you I would do an external gate on the exhaust manifold and weld the flapper shut, or next best would be an external gate on the o2 housing which is sold for very cheap off ebay and they seem to work well.

 

[kahl23]

Looking at your mod list it looks like you have a stock downpipe and a Greddy exhaust, are you upgrading the downpipe? Also, what size is the piping on the exhaust? Using a 2.5 TBE on an E3 16g we had no creep with an internal gate with the standard-sized flapper. Still breathed well enough from 117mph traps. If you don't go full 3 inch on the exhaust all the way back you probably wont have creep issues, as the smaller exhaust creates backpressure that keeps the turbo from creeping, but every setup is different. I would, , stay away from the 34mm flapper, they've had some issues with blowing open prematurely (not that I would know anything about that personally...) due to the fact that they have more surface area and therefore more pressure is exerted on them compared to stock flappers.

 

[Dsmj89]

Looking at your mod list it looks like you have a stock downpipe and a Greddy exhaust, are you upgrading the downpipe? Also, what size is the piping on the exhaust? Using a 2.5 TBE on an E3 16g we had no creep with an internal gate with the standard-sized flapper. Still breathed well enough from 117mph traps. If you don't go full 3 inch on the exhaust all the way back you probably wont have creep issues, as the smaller exhaust creates backpressure that keeps the turbo from creeping, but every setup is different. I would, , stay away from the 34mm flapper, they've had some issues with blowing open prematurely (not that I would know anything about that personally...) due to the fact that they have more surface area and therefore more pressure is exerted on them compared to stock flappers.

Not anymore, as of a week ago i now have a 3" downpipe, and the size of the exhaust piping on my greddy cat-back is 2.5". I was thinking if i chose the option to get an external dump o2 housing (remaining with the internal wastegate, just dumping) would help with the boost creep issue better than porting the turbo. I will eventually go full 3" later this year.

 

[97gstjosh]

I have an E3 16g external gated setup on the exhaust manifold on 21 pounds and love it. Just peep my mod list man

 

[kahl23]

Not anymore, as of a week ago i now have a 3" downpipe, and the size of the exhaust piping on my greddy cat-back is 2.5". I was thinking if i chose the option to get an external dump o2 housing (remaining with the internal wastegate, just dumping) would help with the boost creep issue better than porting the turbo. I will eventually go full 3" later this year.

Personally I'd hold off on these mods until you step up to a bigger turbo. There's really no need for them and as I said earlier, they could hurt you in terms of creep.

 

[xdxoxuxgx]

I have an EVOIII GT and I tried just keeping it around 15 psi and it was creeping bad, even with an o2 dump. I would suggest doing an external dump to stay on the safe side. Boost creep is very annoying while trying to tune/figure out your car.

 

[jrohner]

Just get the supporting mods to run a decent amount of boost and you won't have to even think the words 'boost creep'. Less than 20psi is pointless anyways.

 

[pboglio]

EVOIII 16g here, slight port on the turbine inlet & a completely stock unported wastegate opening. If I set the boost at 15 psi it "slowly" creeps to about 20 psi with a very ported 2g 02 housing/2.5" downpipe/testpipe/3" catback. I'm sure some simple porting of the wastegate opening would drop that creep down lower, but to me I like being able to hold higher boost. I would not go 34 mm flapper or external dump.

 

[JusMX141]

Stock flapper and wastegate hole size creeps upward, but can hold boost into the 20's without problems.

34mm flapper and ported wastegate hole can combat boost creep a little better than the stock, unported flapper, but you will not be able to hold boost above 20psi very easily.

It's all preference- if you never plan on going crazy with the boost, the 34mm flapper is a good choice. If your plans include one day running well into the 20's on the stock internally-gated turbo, you should try adding some restriction to your exhaust system. Boost creep is simply a side effect of an exhaust system that flows too freely.

 

[Dsmj89]

Stock flapper and wastegate hole size creeps upward, but can hold boost into the 20's without problems.

34mm flapper and ported wastegate hole can combat boost creep a little better than the stock, unported flapper, but you will not be able to hold boost above 20psi very easily.

It's all preference- if you never plan on going crazy with the boost, the 34mm flapper is a good choice. If your plans include one day running well into the 20's on the stock internally-gated turbo, you should try adding some restriction to your exhaust system. Boost creep is simply a side effect of an exhaust system that flows too freely.

Thanks for that great explanation. My goals with this turbo is to simply make mid-high 300's. So would you recommend just running external and leave the turbo as is with no porting or flapper upgrade ?

 

[JusMX141]

You'll probably have to run into the 20's of boost to get that much power out of the 16G. This is a difficult task for any internal wastegate system without getting boost spikes / drops.

If you're running the external gate off the manifold, two or three tack-welds on the actuator lever (where it pivots at the housing) is enough to keep the flapper from ever blowing open. This way the tack-welds can easily be removed if you ever want to resell the turbo as an internally-gated unit. These guys that weld the entire flapper shut inside the housing are wasting time, mig wire, and ruining a good turbine housing.

If you're planning on running the external gate off the o2 housing, simply remove the flapper altogether, plug the actuator lever hole in the housing, and open up the existing wastegate hole as large as possible:

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[Dsmj89]

Thanks jusmx.

 

[kahl23]

I have an EVOIII GT and I tried just keeping it around 15 psi and it was creeping bad, even with an o2 dump. I would suggest doing an external dump to stay on the safe side. Boost creep is very annoying while trying to tune/figure out your car.

Apples to oranges comparing a China knockoff to a MHI unit.

 

[Dsmj89]

You'll probably have to run into the 20's of boost to get that much power out of the 16G.

I might have been exaggerating a bit, to be honest i don't plan to race or beat on my car, i just want a nice daily driver with some kick in it for those random "gotta race him" events.
I will be more than suffice with low 300's. I was thinking a ported turbine inlet/outlet along with a ported exh mani and a external dumped o2 housing. Will this setup do good ?
And as the kit comes with the evo3 exh mani as well, should i leave it unported or should i port it ?

 

[Dsmj89]

Also one thing that has been bugging me is that i see the fp18g go for $100 more than the evo3 16g and i have never seen/read/heard of an 18g with boost creep problems ? Someone enlighten me. I am very curious on the 18g as well...

 

[pboglio]

A freer flowing turbine wheel is gonna make boost creep worse. Its the more restrictive turbines that are easier to control. My old clipped small 16g was a boost creeping monster, completely uncontrollable.

Ported correctly, an EVOIII 16g can maintain boost "reasonably" well, its really not that big of a deal. I'd port the hell out of the stock 02 housing though, and maybe port the wastegate flapper opening with some generous radiusing into the wastegate entrance. If that doesn't sufficiently control boost, then drop the turbine housing and get the 34mm flapper installed.

I think its a case of reading all the hype about EVOIII 16g's creeping out of control. After running one at 15 psi and creeping very slowly to 20 psi on a completely stock wastegate, I was like, "What is all the hype about?"

 

[JusMX141]

Also one thing that has been bugging me is that i see the fp18g go for $100 more than the evo3 16g and i have never seen/read/heard of an 18g with boost creep problems ? Someone enlighten me. I am very curious on the 18g as well...

I don't think you can buy a FP 18G without a 34mm flapper, if that's what you're asking.