Rally car conversion

[jumpman]

Hey, I've got a question that really doesn't fit anywhere so I put it here. Maybe the mods will kick me to the right forum.

Anyway, I was thinking of making my 95 Eagle Talon TSi AWD into a rally car when I "retire" it from the road in about two or three years. I was hoping that I could either get some advice or a point in the right direction for doing this properly.

I know WRC has some very, very strick rules concerning what can be done with the car in terms of exhaust, clutch, suspension, chasis and a bunch of other things I'm probably forgetting. And I would hate to be disqualified before I even get on the track.

Well thanks for listening to my babbling.

Regards,
CMF

 

[Slow99x]

Your car is a near impossibility for the WRC. There are million dollar factory cars with 300hp and 400lbs of torque that run full teams. Check with the SCCA due to their more accessability to the U.S. (the WRC doesn't run in the U.S. yet). The SCCA has several classes and different rules for each class of vehicles. Check their website for rules, dates, and membership info. A good start for mods would be a smaller turbo with very fast spool like a big 16g or an EVO 3 16g, an upgraded cooling system (alum. radiator, better cooling fans), Fuel system (fuel pump and injectors), FMIC with some protective mesh over it, clutch and very light flywheel, mild cams wouldn't hurt except for your classification, a downpipe and exhaust, an electronic boost controller, fuel management (S-AFC or AEM EMS), suspention (rally coilovers, street coils will break), FIA approved racing seats and harness, roll cage, a built tranny with shorter gears, a front limited slip diff, Stoptech brakes, wheels and wheel studs built for rally, rally tires (several wheels and tires are needed due to damage and blowouts and different race conditions), racing steering wheel, rally computer, a good co-pilot that knows how to read rally maps, and a lot of luck. Sorry if I forgot anything

 

[jumpman]

Originally posted by Slow99x

Check with the SCCA due to their more accessability to the U.S. (the WRC doesn't run in the U.S. yet). The SCCA has several classes and different rules for each class of vehicles. Check their website for rules, dates, and membership info.

I did find their website. Thanks, they have a lot of information to digest. Judging by the rules I'm thinking Group N is more my style. I had to look at the FIA website to get the rules but they were pretty thorough. I just don't have the time or the money to compete in the Open class.

I have one question though. It really seems to be a question whether I can actually add a Boost Guage to the car. They say I can't add a sensor, but they say I can replace a guage with a better one...

So any help on that one would be appreciated.

A good start for mods would be a smaller turbo with very fast spool like a big 16g or an EVO 3 16g, an upgraded cooling system (alum. radiator, better cooling fans), Fuel system (fuel pump and injectors), FMIC with some protective mesh over it, clutch and very light flywheel, mild cams wouldn't hurt except for your classification, a downpipe and exhaust, an electronic boost controller, fuel management (S-AFC or AEM EMS), suspention (rally coilovers, street coils will break), FIA approved racing seats and harness, roll cage, a built tranny with shorter gears, a front limited slip diff,

I think I can do everything excep the tranny and diff change. Group N rules don't allow for diff changes or gear ratio changes but I can beef up the tranny internals. At least that is what I think they say. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Any suggestions on whom I could get the flywheel from?

Stoptech brakes, wheels and wheel studs built for rally, rally tires (several wheels and tires are needed due to damage and blowouts and different race conditions), racing steering wheel, rally computer, a good co-pilot that knows how to read rally maps, and a lot of luck.

Okay, I know where to get everything else except the steering wheel and the rally computer. Again a point in the right direction would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for the info Slow99x!

Keep it coming!
CMF

 

[jtmcinder]

If you are serious about getting into rallying, then don't worry if your current car is competitive or not. You're going to total it, anyway.

- Jtoby

 

[Slow99x]

The boost gauge gets wired into the vehicle's elctrical system but make sure that it is a wire that is only hot when the vehicle is on. For the actual boost, there is a vac. line that comes from the intake manifold to the firewall. Just tap into that or go to vfaq.com for more instructions. Make sure to get a good boost gauge that has a memory function so that tuning is easier. Greddy, A'pexi, HKS, and Defi have these types. An EGT gauge wouldn't hurt either. The steering wheel can be any unit that doesn't have an airbag like a Sparco. These wheels alow for those buttons to be used for other switches. The rally computer is a little more difficult. Contact TAD racing in Barrington, IL. That's all they to is Rally. They also can build an EVO out of a Mirage. The flywheel can be a Fidanza with a replacable surface area. You can find them right here in the parts section of this website.

 

[mavisky]

Originally posted by jtmcinder
If you are serious about getting into rallying, then don't worry if your current car is competitive or not. You're going to total it, anyway.

- Jtoby

very very true. one of the best ways to end up with a million dollars in your bank account is to start with 10 million then go rallying

 

[jumpman]

Originally posted by Slow99x
The boost gauge gets wired into the vehicle's elctrical system but make sure that it is a wire that is only hot when the vehicle is on. For the actual boost, there is a vac. line that comes from the intake manifold to the firewall. Just tap into that or go to vfaq.com for more instructions. Make sure to get a good boost gauge that has a memory function so that tuning is easier. Greddy, A'pexi, HKS, and Defi have these types. An EGT gauge wouldn't hurt either. The steering wheel can be any unit that doesn't have an airbag like a Sparco. These wheels alow for those buttons to be used for other switches. The rally computer is a little more difficult. Contact TAD racing in Barrington, IL. That's all they to is Rally. They also can build an EVO out of a Mirage. The flywheel can be a Fidanza with a replacable surface area. You can find them right here in the parts section of this website.

Thanks muchly. I'll start researching it soon. Got to muster the cash for the beginning stuff first though.

Thanks again,
CMF

 

[cOiL]

Originally posted by jtmcinder
If you are serious about getting into rallying, then don't worry if your current car is competitive or not. You're going to total it, anyway.

- Jtoby

god, whats the point of even living if we are just going to die. dont be a dick. if you have that attitude, you dont belong on a track.


jumpman. buddy of mine is a pro rally driver here in the us. he's actually in group 2; which is a fwd, NA and one of the lower cost classes. just to kinda let you know what kind of budget to expect, he currently has over 30 grand invested in his integra. now add on all wheel drive, forced induction, faster cars (more broken parts) and higher compeition and the costs skyrocket. slow99x mentioned some of the stuff you'll need. he's right though, wrc is a whole nother world. the cars are limited to 300hp, but have over 500 foot pounds of torque. thats some serious cash spent. plus, most wrc teams only use a chassis for three races and go to a new one.

id suggest if you want to get involved in rally, get late 90's civic hatch. go to a rally driving school (tim o'neil is extremely good and worth the money) and learn fwd first. you'll be faster down the road if you decide to move up to awd if you start rally in a smaller and slower car. plus, if you decide it's not right for you, you haven't wasted 50-60 grand on a rally car. you can find a fwd car thats already built and all the supplies you need, including trailer, for anywhere between 5-15k. youll need to compile some sort of team if you want to be compeditive, too.

if you get into it, good luck!! its a shit load of fun and the people who do it say there's nothing better in the world! keep us posted!

 

[Defiant]

I've seen the 1Gs in rallyes, but does anyone do it with a 2G? Are they too heavy and too low?

 

[jumpman]

Originally posted by cOiL
god, whats the point of even living if we are just going to die. dont be a dick. if you have that attitude, you dont belong on a track.


jumpman. buddy of mine is a pro rally driver here in the us. he's actually in group 2; which is a fwd, NA and one of the lower cost classes. just to kinda let you know what kind of budget to expect, he currently has over 30 grand invested in his integra. now add on all wheel drive, forced induction, faster cars (more broken parts) and higher compeition and the costs skyrocket. slow99x mentioned some of the stuff you'll need. he's right though, wrc is a whole nother world. the cars are limited to 300hp, but have over 500 foot pounds of torque. thats some serious cash spent. plus, most wrc teams only use a chassis for three races and go to a new one.

[...]

plus, if you decide it's not right for you, you haven't wasted 50-60 grand on a rally car. you can find a fwd car thats already built and all the supplies you need, including trailer, for anywhere between 5-15k. youll need to compile some sort of team if you want to be compeditive, too.

if you get into it, good luck!! its a shit load of fun and the people who do it say there's nothing better in the world! keep us posted!

You know I thought about saying something about that post, but given that I was involved in a borderline flamewar with Morphius, I didn't want to provoke Luda or Defiant to lay down the proverbial b!tch smack on me .

As for the trailer and accompanying hitching materials, I already have those. My uncle and cousins used to race in the classic circuit (they had a Cuda and a Stingray if anybody wants to know) and because I was there just about every other weekend helping them tune them, my uncle said I could have the trailer and accompanying mounting stuff gratis.

I also already have a crew. I have a co-driver/backup driver signed up, a backup co-driver, and a backup-backup co-driver. I also have one or two really good mechanics that might sign up. And all of my other crew (the co-drivers and myself) are above average mechanics ourselves, so a crew isn't my top priority right now.

As to the whole civic thing... I migh consider it, but one of the reasons why I'm going into rally is because I find it more challenging in terms of modifications. Between trying to remain competitive, and trying to get the right suspension travel, and trying to get the max power, all while trying to remain within the rules seems like it would be fun. To me there just isn't enough challenge in making a 1/4 mile machine. There is tons of documentation about it, to the point where it is becoming a "Put slot A into tab B" kind of thing. I mean Shelby was/is my idol. Not because he put a 500hp engine in an itty-bitty car, but because he had a 500hp car that handled like a bloody go-cart.

And I suppose I should clarify with what I said before about WRC. I know that I don't have the money and time to go to WRC, I knew that before I posted. My intention all along was to go into SCCA, but I didn't know how many people knew about SCCA. And thanks to the Speed Channel, many people have caught onto what WRC is all about.

Well that's all I've got to say about that

Regards,
CMF

(P.S. sorry for the book...)

 

[jumpman]

Originally posted by Defiant
I've seen the 1Gs in rallyes, but does anyone do it with a 2G? Are they too heavy and too low?

They are kinda rare, but I've seen a couple.

I think it more has to do with the fear of crankwalk that it has to do with weight and clearance. With some creativity, I believe one can make a 2G as light as a 1G. And a simple suspension kit can help with the clearance issue (with appropriate mods to keep the center of gravity low).

I'll keep you guys posted on how everything goes.

Regards,
CMF