Quick injector/turbo/SAFC question...nothin crazy

[KPEclipse]

Hey guys, I just ordered my set of 550cc injectors, and I'm this close to getting an E316G

I have all the supporting mods...but I have one question.
Can I run the setup without having an SaFc?

Alot of people will probably say get DSMlink or an SAFC, I was just wondering if they are COMPLETELY NECISARRY. Like can I put the 550's, new turbo, FMIC and all on, and have no big time fuel issues?

I do have a new fuel pump and rewire kit that will be going on as well...I was just wondering if I can put these parts on without an SAFC and not have problems...thanks guys.

KRaig

 

[Quasimondo]

Yes, it is necessary. By altering any variable in the tuning equation (turbo, injectors, etc.) you are altering how the ecu will operate because it does not recognize the changes and will continue to function as if all of the stock components were in place. At best, your fuel trims will be off, and driveability and fuel economy will be degraded. At worst, serious engine damage can occur. A piggyback device like the SAFC or semi-standalone like DSMLink will ensure your driveability is maintained and your engine stays in one piece.

 

[KPEclipse]

well I already have a MAFt...is that enough...because isn't that piggyback as well?

 

[Rex2342]

well I already have a MAFt...is that enough...because isn't that piggyback as well?

The MAFT works kind of like the AFC. They both alter the MAF signal. If you have the newer version 2.02 you can adjust it by RPM and get the car pretty close but it is difficult to tune with(at least I'm finding it difficult). Since it mounts under the hood you have to keep stopping to make adjustments unless you extend the harness and mount it in the car. You will need a logger of some sort for tuning otherwise you'll be flying blind.

 

[scottsee]

To answer your original question. It is possible to "best guess" your new injectors flow rate with the flow sheets that come in the injector box and lower BFP on your AFPR to compensate for the larger flow rate. It's been used for years and is more of a crutch for fokes out running their current injectors. If you have an AFPR like the Aeromotive 13109 you can lower your 2g fuel pressure to 28.9psi with the vac line off to compensate for 550's..

Not recomended....

That will do nothing for you though. It is just a way to compensate for larger injectors. You will not have a higer flow rate then the stock 450's and 100% IDC will be identical to the new injectors 100% IDC. Raising rate fuel pressure regulators are really just for upping base fuel pressure.

You need "somthing" to compensate for the extra flow rates. MAFT, SAFC, whatever. The 2g has 12 fuel & timing maps ragning from 50hz up past 2000hz (actually messured in g/rev) the ecu won't know wtf is going on when the front02 volts come back much higher then expected, they'll will try and ajust the fuel after a little while and apply the leaner values to the LTFT's but after reaching +/-12.9% (limits of the fuel compensation abilities) you'll be up shit creek.

/rant

 

[KPEclipse]

So basically...to put this thing on and get it to run right, I'm going to need an SAFC AND a FPR..swell...I feel like you all are basically telling me not to chance it...to get an AFC and FPR...
So I guess this leads to a follow up question...

Now saying I get an AFC and get it installed with the new turbo, FPR, injectors, and frontmount...what do I do next?
The AFC doesn't come with like pre tuned settings for whatever right? How will I know what to tune where, and all of that?? I feel like once I get it all on, then what? I obviously am and will be BRAND NEW to the whole tuning/SAFC world, and that's alot...I mean in the previous post, in all honesty I don't know half of those terms...

Again I'll ask a couple of things...
Will the car run, and if so how bad/good if I install everything minus an FPR and SAFC?
Second off, how dangerous, if at all, wil it be to have all of that installed minus the FPR and SAFC?
Third off, how tough will it be for me to tune with the SAFC with no prior knowledge/expierence?

I'm just afraid to mess things up, break something...or whatever the case may be. I've spent alot of time and money(like I'm sure most of you have) on this car and I don't want to be one of the guys that breaks something and ends up parting out and getting out of dsms and all of that...or ends up putting myself and others in danger.



Thanks guys for all the feedback so far, keep it comin

 

[Rex2342]

If you already have a maf translator then you can tune with that it's just a little more difficult than the AFC. Some guys swear by the MAFT and tune only with that. I myself am using an AFC and a MAFT to tune with. Once you get everything together YOU WILL NEED A DATA LOGGER to see what affects your adjustments are having on your fuel trims.
To answer your questions:
1: Yes it might start but may not run well
2: It could be very dangerous to your motor and turbo if your running to lean
3:I'm not going to tell you that tuning is easy but it's not as difficult as it sounds. With the proper tools (a data logger) you should be able to tune it yourself and it should run very well.Your not going to get every last HP out of it but you can get it close. It just takes time and lots of patients. I never used an AFC before I got mine last year but it's very easy to use. It's knowing where to make your adjustments and what affects they have on your fuel trims thats kind of tricky. Just take your time and read everything you can get your hands on and you should be fine. There is a ton of knowledge on these boards you just have to find it.

 

[KPEclipse]

So theres no way to tune correctly without a logger? I cant just have the SAFC on and be able to tune with that without a logger?

haha this 16g upgrade is becoming more and more expensive...
Basically my turbo "kit" consists/should consist of:
16g(whichever size)
550+cc injectors
FMIC
Fuel pump
SAFC
Logger

next question...what "logs"? just dsmlink or...?

 

[Rex2342]

Without some type of logger you would have no way of knowing where your at tuning wise. I have no experience with DSMLINK so maybe someone else can answer if it has logging capabilities. If you go with DSMLINK I think you would still need a laptop and I believe all 2g's have eprom ECU's but I could be wrong.The list you have should be good but I would add a AFPR also. Once you start upgrading the turbo system it can get expensive but it's all a part of the game. Once you get it tuned your drivetrain will start taking mor punishment and you'll have to upgrade that sooner or later. It's a vicious cycle.

 

[KPEclipse]

so right now im looking for a logger...i think dsmlink has logging and tuning capabilities...i just right now am trying to find an actual LOGGER that i can afford...what loggers are out there that dont require laptops or anything? I dont really want to buy dsmlink...but if I must then I must.
I thought only 95's had eprom ecu's...im not sure of that either...
as for my drivetrain i already have full race trans and lsd...i just will have to get a clutch

 

[Rex2342]

I'm using MMCD on my but it's only for the 1g. I think the pocketlogger is for 2g's but you will still need a Palm pilot that is compatible.I got my Palm from ebay for like $50. If it's anything like the 1g logger you might be able to make the cable(s) you need and just "find" the software but again I'm not 100% sure on that.

 

[KPEclipse]

we have like 2 or 3 old palms around here from my parents not using them nemore...and upgrading...thats not my worry...i just need to find the logger/logger software...pocketlogger u say?
do you think it'd come with software?

 

[KPEclipse]

nvm...i found the site...obdloggers.com
donno if you care or not haha...

 

[Rex2342]

haha thats good cause I couldn't remember the site!

 

[KPEclipse]

haha yep its right on there underneath mitsubishi

 

[MAKASHIFWD1]

going back to you original questions, yes the car should run fine, as long as u keep boost low or just don't do crazy pulls...just drive it normally like shifting at 3000rpm and just cruising at 60mph on freeways...just dont boost over 15psi you should be ok...untill u get all your other parts..

 

[scottsee]

Most 95 ecu's have EPROM & 95 is the only year for the 2g to have them. They were antisipating a change in the emission requirments from the EPA and were playing it safe. Dsmlink is a full fledged all in one tuning program with logging abilities. You can use dsmlink with either a laptop or palm. The cable that comes with Dsmlink is a DB9 serial cable, but you can buy a DB9-to-USB for $29 from Staples. The Dsmlink forums have a compatibility list of known working/non-working cables.

You need a logger to see whats going on. No way around it. Good luck

 

[KPEclipse]

to order dsmlink...the site confused me
do i have to SEND THEM my ecu/an eprom ECU for them to service it and send it back?

 

[a73_4g67]

The car will be running rich if you dont control those 550s.

The ECU will treat the 550s like 450s.

What you need to do is shorten the injector pulse width(amount of time the injectors are open) on the 550's to maintain a/f ratio on all RPM points.


You can either have your ECU rechipped if it has EPROM, use DSMLink or use SAFC.

Adjusting airflow to negative thru SAFC will give you more timing advance and will be more prone to knock. Its still best to use DSMlink or a rechipped ECU.

Hey guys, I just ordered my set of 550cc injectors, and I'm this close to getting an E316G

I have all the supporting mods...but I have one question.
Can I run the setup without having an SaFc?

Alot of people will probably say get DSMlink or an SAFC, I was just wondering if they are COMPLETELY NECISARRY. Like can I put the 550's, new turbo, FMIC and all on, and have no big time fuel issues?

I do have a new fuel pump and rewire kit that will be going on as well...I was just wondering if I can put these parts on without an SAFC and not have problems...thanks guys.

KRaig

 

[spyderturbo007]

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Thanks, talonAWD99, that was a very productive post. I'm sure that everyone appreciates your help. Now take a hike and don't come back.

 

[KPEclipse]

thanks spyder...you took the words out of my post...