Pump gas tuning limits?

[eder-loco]

When do you know when you are out of the pump limits?

I'm currently running:

93 pump/ water-meth.
15* of Timing
27-28psi
GT3582r
built motor.

I wish I could post a log but my damn laptop is full of spamware.
I am getting 1 DEG of knock at most from 6500rpm to 6900 then gone.
Injectors duty at most is @ 74%
From 5700rpm I am already at 2533.6 Hz and goes up to 3k Hz by redline, this being on a 2g MAF.

The car is fully tuned, and feels great. But the question comes in mind, am I near the pump limit running that amount of boost?

 

[jking29]

Depends, what pump are you running?

 

[eder-loco]

walbro 255 rewired

 

[jking29]

I believe 3000Hz on a 2g mas is around 52lb/min give or take, depending on temperature and altitude. So you should still have some headroom left as the 255 should be good to over 600hp.

 

[spyderturbo007]

On a side note, running MalwareBytes AntiMalware on your PC should take care of the problem. You might also want to take a look at ComboFix to remove the nasty problems. Just be sure that you follow the instructions to the letter when running ComboFix or you can really screw up the OS.

If you run into any problems, shoot me a PM and I'll be more than happy to help you out.

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

Is your question about the limits of pump gas or your fuel pump?

Pump Gas + Water/Meth = Almost Limitless Abilities

What does your AFR look like?

 

[1992awdlaser]

When your logs say so.

 

[twdorris]

From 5700rpm I am already at 2533.6 Hz and goes up to 3k Hz by redline this being on a 2g MAF

I'll defer to other opinions on the limits of the 255 as I haven't run the numbers myself.

But as related to the 2G MAF, I'd be a bit concerned running in the 2700-3000 hz range. You're definitely near (if not slightly beyond) the metering limits of that MAF. If you're running ECMLink (or DSMLink in case of a V2 setup), consider enabling MAF clamp around 2700 hz and you'll probably be fine for quite a while.

There's at least one guy running 9s with a factory unhacked 2G MAF using the MAF clamp feature. So used properly, it's certainly a functional option.

Thomas Dorris

 

[Steve93Talon]

Pump/meth is far from "pump limits". We've run as much as 34psi and 21 degrees of timing up top on an FP35r in the bolt-on housing, without so much as a blip of knock. This was on FIC 1150s and a Supra pump. The first question I'd ask is, what meth nozzle size are you using? Most kits come with a nozzle sized for like 300whp setups by default unless you specify otherwise. We were able to run ALOT more boost and timing by installing a larger nozzle. Also, what is your ratio of water to meth? We were running at least 75% meth, which worked alot better than a mix with more water. Also, are you running real methanol or washer fluid? I've seen very mixed results with washer fluid.

 

[eder-loco]

I am running DSMLink, With a unhacked 2g MAF
My AFR's are 11.6-11.8 thru out the power band.
I am running on 0* washer fluid With a 375ml/min nozzle. which is rated to 350-500hp.

 

[eder-loco]

On a side note, running MalwareBytes AntiMalware on your PC should take care of the problem. You might also want to take a look at ComboFix to remove the nasty problems. Just be sure that you follow the instructions to the letter when running ComboFix or you can really screw up the OS.

If you run into any problems, shoot me a PM and I'll be more than happy to help you out.

thanks Will do, so i can get a log up.

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

To put this into perspective. I'm running an M3 and M7 Nozzle on my S16G @ 27psi. Those two nozzles combined should be equal to 630ml/min or an M10 - 10GPH.

You might try putting either a second nozzle on or a larger single nozzle. Then again if you are seeing no knock why bother?

 

[eder-loco]

Ok, finally got one of the logs off my damn crap laptop.

The log I posted is not a on the finished tune, Guy still worked on getting the BoostEST calibrated. And we were having trouble with my boost controller. which is fixed now.
Also, the wideband reads about 1.0 off. So don't pay attention to what it logged. We weren't basing off that. He was looking at the gauge it self the whole time.

BTW, does anybody know where I can get the DSMLink V2.5 so I can read the log on my desktop? I only have the newest version of DSMLink and it doesn't read them.

 

[twdorris]

Ok, finally got one of the logs off my damn crap laptop.

Very nice. I don't see any sign of MAF over run yet, but definitely keep an eye on it. It's an easy fix if it ever does come up.

Thomas Dorris

 

[eder-loco]

Very nice. I don't see any sign of MAF over run yet, but definitely keep an eye on it. It's an easy fix if it ever does come up.

Thomas Dorris

Good to hear, thanks. I guess What i am really trying to ask is, is the tune safe on 28psi on pump/meth as it sits now?

 

[1992awdlaser]

I guess What i am really trying to ask is, is the tune safe on 28psi on pump/meth as it sits now?

I see no reason why it wouldn't be with the current timing settings, air/fuel ratio, and knock(none).

 

[twdorris]

Also, please consider downloading and using the new V3 application off our website. It's really a much nicer interface with a lot more functionality. You won't have any of the new V3 features in the chip, of course, but even just using the application with a V2 ECU is much better than the V2 application.

Downloads page

You'll just need to go into "Connection Config" and select that you're connecting to a V2 ECU first.

Thomas Dorris

 

[eder-loco]

Nice, Will do!

 

[need2boostpsi]

you should update your profile. I was looking at your log and looking in your profile and going WTF?
I'm just curious what exhaust manifold you have and I assume your running T3 on your hotside. that log is beautiful and props on staying with the mitsu 2g MAF.

 

[silvreclips]

So back to the topic how do we know when we reach the limit of pump gas. Im talkin about with out meth just 93 octane. Its seems that with a good AFR the more the boost increases the lower timing has to go for no knock. So at what point do you stop pulling timing and lower the boost back down.

Right now Im running a 20g at 23psi. Timing is 13* at peak torque and goes to 14* at 6k. Usually doesn't get knock but may have a slight amount when changing gears after a few pulls. For that boost level the timing doesn't seem to low but how will I know when I get to that limit?

 

[94Jettameowpsst]

With a 3 inch gm maf (*i know you're talking about the 2g maf) the tpg tuning car made what, like 570whp on 93 octane...then 600 some odd whp on pump at like 26 psi on the 42r.....on dsmlink.

I think if you hack the crap out of the maf and adjust the airflow sliders you can make more power than you think.

 

[eder-loco]

you should update your profile. I was looking at your log and looking in your profile and going WTF?
I'm just curious what exhaust manifold you have and I assume your running T3 on your hotside. that log is beautiful and props on staying with the mitsu 2g MAF.

haha, its been a while. but this is on a
-DNP mitsu flanged manifold
-FP 3565 Hot housing
-Garret Gt3582r cold side


but yea, i just decided to stick with the 2g MAF for now,

 

[silvreclips]

So back to the topic how do we know when we reach the limit of pump gas. Im talkin about with out meth just 93 octane. Its seems that with a good AFR the more the boost increases the lower timing has to go for no knock. So at what point do you stop pulling timing and lower the boost back down.

Right now Im running a 20g at 23psi. Timing is 13* at peak torque and goes to 14* at 6k. Usually doesn't get knock but may have a slight amount when changing gears after a few pulls. For that boost level the timing doesn't seem to low but how will I know when I get to that limit?

No one has any input on this?

 

[Steve93Talon]

No one has any input on this?

Everyone has their own tuning methods. The general rule of thumb is shoot for AFRs in the 10s, timing probably around 5-8 at peak torque ramping up to 10-16 at redline, and as much boost as you can get away with, depending greatly on charge temps (aka turbo/IC efficiency).

There are alot of other factors that will dictate your knock threshold though, like compression ratio, boost leaks, ambient temps (and underhood temps if you don't have a cold air inlet pipe), octane, VE (bolt-on, T3, or T4 hotside - SMIM - cams - headwork...). Oil in the charge air can also cause knock. If your PCV and valve cover breather are still functional, they should be routed through a REAL oil separator, not just some open catchcan or straight into the air path.

The bottom line is there's no one-size-fits-all answer. Your pump gas limit could be 300whp or 600whp depending on your setup.

 

[->PrOjEcTGS<-]

So back to the topic how do we know when we reach the limit of pump gas. Im talkin about with out meth just 93 octane. Its seems that with a good AFR the more the boost increases the lower timing has to go for no knock. So at what point do you stop pulling timing and lower the boost back down.

Right now Im running a 20g at 23psi. Timing is 13* at peak torque and goes to 14* at 6k. Usually doesn't get knock but may have a slight amount when changing gears after a few pulls. For that boost level the timing doesn't seem to low but how will I know when I get to that limit?

No one has any input on this?

I'll take a stab at it. This is best determined with a logger at a facility with a dyno where you can accurately measure the power gains made by various timing and AFR and boost adjustments. You will know when you are at the limit if you get to a point of deminishing returns on your adjustments or you just aren't able to control knock.

For tuning purposes you will want to limit your variables. Leave Boost & AFR same and adjust timing. Or Leave Boost & Timing the same and adjust AFR. Or Keep timing & AFR the same and adjust Boost.

For instance, set your desired boost and get your AFR set at your desired level and keep timing at a low level. Once both those are in line then you can start adjusting timing Raising it till you see knock or you've reached a point of deminishing returns on power. If at this point you've got your timing set and are at your desired AFR you can start messing with other variables until you either see knock or don't gain any power.

Please, don't try and be a hero by trying to get it right in one sitting. It takes time. Only make changes to one variable at a time. This keeps it simple and if you need to revert back it won't be hard to remember what you did.