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PLEASE HELP - Starter Just Spins

Posted by AjWit, Jun 10, 2009

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  1. AjWit

    AjWit Proven Member

    135
    0
    Joined Apr 24, 2008
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    Driving down the road, clutch out, slight throttle, just driving. Car loses power, hit the gas and doesnt want to go, then stalls and dies. When i try to re-start it, you can hear the starter just spinning, like its not grabbing the flywheel. But if i try to start it with the clutch pedal out, it will pull the car forward. Also, if i put it into gear, it will not stop the car from rolling freely.

    -Car rolls freely even when parked
    -Starter spins freely when clutch is in
    -Car pulls if clutch is left out and try to start

    I have tools here, i can get into about anything myself. Need some suggestions though?
    Thank you.
     

    272  0

    1990 Plymouth Laser N/T
    manual · 1G DSM
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  2. SrKegler

    SrKegler Proven Member

    919
    32
    Joined Feb 29, 2004
    Daytona Beach, Florida
    Sounds like there isn't any compression. Check the timing belt marks.
     
  3. AjWit

    AjWit Proven Member

    135
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    Joined Apr 24, 2008
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    SrKegler: that is a thought, but the engine(crank, cam gears, timing belt) dont move when i try to start the car with the clutch in. so i think its not even getting to the point where compression is an issue, the engine is just sitting still.
     

    272  0

    1990 Plymouth Laser N/T
    manual · 1G DSM
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  4. 6bolt2gdsm

    6bolt2gdsm Proven Member

    170
    1
    Joined Feb 11, 2008
    burlington, West Virginia
    Check to see if your starter came loose. Possibly be your throw out bearing? Just some thoughts that come to mind.
     
  5. SrKegler

    SrKegler Proven Member

    919
    32
    Joined Feb 29, 2004
    Daytona Beach, Florida
    You stated the starter will pull the car forward with the clutch out. That means the starter and clutch are good. Car rolls freely in gear. Everything points to no compression to me.

    Hope I'm wrong.
     
  6. EagleTalon1993

    EagleTalon1993 Proven Member

    90
    0
    Joined May 30, 2009
    Tampa, Florida
    The fact that the crank doen't move could suggest a possible separation of flywheel and crank shaft.

    That's another one I hope isn't the case but worth looking into, You could have a helper engage the starter while looking to see if the flywheel is spinning (out of gear of course) If it is and the crank pulley is not moving then I would suspect broken flywheel or it sheered the bolts connecting it to the crankshaft.

    Again I hope not
     

    210  0

    1993 Eagle Talon N/T
    · 1G DSM
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  7. AjWit

    AjWit Proven Member

    135
    0
    Joined Apr 24, 2008
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    OK guys, here's my deal. I looked over the timing and noticed that if a roll the car while in gear, the cam gears and timing belt don't move in sync, i think i have a jumped timing belt.

    Plan of action, replace timing belt and belt tensioner. Reset timing, slap it all back together and try and start her. If it doesnt run right then, i think a head rebuild might be in the new plans. Otherwise, i cant think of anything other than doing a compression check once the new belt and tensioner are on.
     

    272  0

    1990 Plymouth Laser N/T
    manual · 1G DSM
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  8. mitsu_gst97

    mitsu_gst97 Probationary Member

    20
    0
    Joined Apr 8, 2009
    Dayton, Ohio
    im pretty sure it takes 6 full revolutions for the cam pulleys and the crank pulley to line back up. So try that out before you suspect jumped time. (I dont want you to replace the Tbelt and all supporting replacements for nothing...) No compression is something that makes sense to me. But has the car been like this for long? I mean, did it just happen in an instant. Or just slowly over time? but its a possibility the flywheel seperated from the crankshaft. either way it doesnt sound good..... But you never know, could be something small............. :(
     
  9. AjWit

    AjWit Proven Member

    135
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    Joined Apr 24, 2008
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    Yes guys, im digging up my own old thread. Heres my update, i removed the timing belt cover to find that the timing belt has teeth missing on it, about 10, and they were the ones sitting against the crank pulley. I have since put a new timing belt on but havent had the chance to fully reset the timing and slip it around all the gears yet. Once i do that (replace TB and reset timing), if it still does the same thing, where would be the next place to look? At the flywheel and starter area?
     

    272  0

    1990 Plymouth Laser N/T
    manual · 1G DSM
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  10. Defiant

    Defiant DSM Wiseman

    25,196
    144
    Joined Jan 13, 2003
    glorious Galt, California
    You've bent your valves. The head comes off.
     

    3K  0

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 2G DSM
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  11. AjWit

    AjWit Proven Member

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    Joined Apr 24, 2008
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    thank you defiant. ill take it off and replace the valves then. does the fact that the teeth were missing explain the "zinging" noise of the starter when i tried to start it. i just dont want to replace the head and timing belt to then learn that i have a (flywheel/starter/crank) issue when im done. Thank you.
     

    272  0

    1990 Plymouth Laser N/T
    manual · 1G DSM
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  12. 96eclipzGsT

    96eclipzGsT Proven Member

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    Joined Aug 12, 2009
    Canton, Georgia
    I would put the belt on first and do a compression test. I lost about 6 teeth on my timing belt once and it didn't bend the valves.
     
  13. AjWit

    AjWit Proven Member

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    Joined Apr 24, 2008
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    OK, thanks again for that recomendation. As my last post mentioned, would the missing teeth on the belt explain my symtomns when i first posted (starter just spins with clutch in, car jumps forward if clutch is out at start, when in gear the car rolls). Would the missing teeth explain these actions? Thanks again guys.
     

    272  0

    1990 Plymouth Laser N/T
    manual · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  14. xloki77x

    xloki77x Proven Member

    142
    1
    Joined May 21, 2008
    Tyngsboro, Massachusetts
    Same thing happened to me about 4 months ago. Teeth on the timing belt sheared clean off at the crank, also about ten of them. Your symptoms sound right. When your starter spins the flywheel, it turns the crank, but, unfortunately, most (if not all) your valves are bent (like mine were) creating a lack of compression therefore leaving you with no combustion process to push the pistons down to turn the crank. When you try to start the car in gear, however, the starter is forcing the flywheel to turn, which then turns the clutch, which turns the rest of your drivetrain directly.

    I figured this out by cranking the motor and having someone look at the timing belt. Since the teeth were sheared off at the crank it was not turning the cams which in turn were not opening the valves. This is bad because the pistons are still moving up and down inside the motor because the crank is still being spun by the starter/flywheel. Unless your crank is not spinning at all, I can almost guarantee this is what is happening. I would definitely recommend taking the head off and looking at the valves because chances are you're going to have to do it anyway...

    Hope that helps and sorry for the bad news.

    Pete
     

    703  0

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.010 @ 108.900 · 1G DSM
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  15. Spoolin18

    Spoolin18 Proven Member

    560
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    Joined Feb 2, 2009
    Albany, Kentucky
    Start with the little things first instead of jumping from one big thing to another. Start with the little things, make sure you check and see if your starter is loose, I had the very same problem happen to me on my first talon. The starter came loose and chipped several flywheel teeth off. It would jump forward sometimes with the clutch out, and sometimes not. It would spin freely with the clutch in. Check that first.
     
  16. DeadsEvolution1

    DeadsEvolution1 Proven Member

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    Joined Jan 10, 2008
    Albuquerque, New Mexico
    IF you have a torn belt there is a good chance you ended up bending valves. I would put the car in time and do a compression test. Don't bother putting on the pulleys or anything because if your compression is low than you probably bent valves so than you don't have to pull all that crap off again
     

    306  0

    1991 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    · 1G DSM
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  17. blackbetty

    blackbetty Proven Member

    30
    1
    Joined Mar 5, 2006
    Portland, Texas
    Something not unlike this?
    <img src="http://www.dsmtuners.com/gallery/files/6/4/9/7/1/crankpulley.jpg" alt="Crank Pulley" />
    Yes, I'm pretty sure your valves are going to be bent. I was in this same exact situation about a year ago, what timing belt were you using?
     

    220  3

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
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  18. AjWit

    AjWit Proven Member

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    0
    Joined Apr 24, 2008
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    when i purchased the car the timing belt was replaced recently, it did look new. but he was not sure what brand belt he used, i asked him. seemed like a newbie, even worse than myself. haha. i have done a 3.0L inline 6 supra head, and 3.0L 3000gt heads by myself before. so the work doesnt scare me, i just wanted more opinions on if i should go ahead and do it. after talking with you guys. i think its a good idea to replace the valves, obviously head gasket and timing belt. that picture is basically exactly what mine looked like when i looked. i'll check around the site for a good manual on how to take this head off quickly and re-assemble it properly. thank you all.
     

    272  0

    1990 Plymouth Laser N/T
    manual · 1G DSM
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  19. Defiant

    Defiant DSM Wiseman

    25,196
    144
    Joined Jan 13, 2003
    glorious Galt, California
    Timing belt brand is not an issue- you can't find one that isn't good. You can spend more on Kevlar, but it's seldom worth the cost.

    What is an issue in that picture is the oil on the belt. They MUST be dry.
     

    3K  0

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 2G DSM
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  20. ilco187

    ilco187 Proven Member

    1,093
    6
    Joined Jan 3, 2009
    Niles, Michigan
    yes it would, if the car moves when clutch is out and starter moving the car i would rule out anything trans and stater related, the cause is you are turning the crank and not the belt and cams, i assume the belt might have gotten wet or oil soaked and skipped over bending the valves ripping teeth etc, which will just sound like you are cranking with the spark plugs out.

    if oil is in that area time to replace cam seals.
     

    866  0

    1993 Mitsubishi Eclipse N/T
    · 1G DSM
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  21. xloki77x

    xloki77x Proven Member

    142
    1
    Joined May 21, 2008
    Tyngsboro, Massachusetts
    Agreed. Oil on belt = imminent belt failure
     

    703  0

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.010 @ 108.900 · 1G DSM
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