pics!!! come looky

[liquidz28]

ok, all of these pics where taken at the same time, notice the edit job im good.....
either way, how can i resolve this without doing a timing belt redo...if its possable..
basically the tab that the guys put on the head when the headwork was done has fallen off into the timing belt and appears to have skipped the oil pump sprocket off some...
any help would be appreciated.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[liquidz28]

ahh i remember this. And as I recall i called the balance shafts then as well

its a good thing you figured out the problem now just fix it. Your idea looks good. Ive done this before makes life easier whenver your doing it by yourself w out help.

If you set the oil pump to TDC along with the other marks rotate it 6 times it should be in line. I dont see it costing you anymore money less the broken spark plug socket. What exactly were you using a standard socket on a dsm for other than the plugs WTF

Kolby

ya, you know them 2 badass nuts on teh motor side of the d/s motor mount? i had the sparkplug socket right next to the impact socket and was dealing with all the children noise and grabbed the wrong one, it fit and it broke ...

 

[rush2252]

ya, you know them 2 badass nuts on teh motor side of the d/s motor mount? i had the sparkplug socket right next to the impact socket and was dealing with all the children noise and grabbed the wrong one, it fit and it broke ...

haha.. fit? 17mm is closer to 11/16 rather than 13/16 and those "spark plug" sockets arent rated for an impacts torque .. I would hide the SAE tools when working on a car nothing more a PITA than trying to get at a bolt in a tite spot that somebody has rounded off.


Kolby

 

[EVO_THREE]

this is kinda what i had in mind to get this done w/o spending any more cash...




As soon as you introduce any slack the tensioner will pop and you'll never get the idler pulley back on.

Start again.

 

[liquidz28]

ok got it all done, ended up doing it by the book...
everything is totally lined up, but unfortunately the vibration still exists..
i dont know what else to check, well at least i got that oil pump alligned correctly i guess.....what the hell else is there to vibrate? at 3k it is horrable wich is also 60mph on the freeway, i cannot drive it like that. its driving me BATTY!WTF

i wish there was someone in the tacoma area that could stop by and see what im talking about ..

 

[gsxtasy]

ok got it all done, ended up doing it by the book...
everything is totally lined up, but unfortunately the vibration still exists..
i dont know what else to check, well at least i got that oil pump alligned correctly i guess.....what the hell else is there to vibrate? at 3k it is horrable wich is also 60mph on the freeway, i cannot drive it like that. its driving me BATTY!WTF

Is it definitely coming from the engine? Are your wheels balanced properly? Maybe a weight fell off or something?

 

[TerribleTSi]

i used to get bad vibrations at 3k plus when my intermediate shaft was coming loose from the block. it's worth a look. make sure you'r main drive belt pulley on the crank is not damaged, it acts as a vibration dampener.

 

[liquidz28]

yep, all pullies are in prestine condition, just got done checking the bellhousing, seems fine and all tight, checked front and rear mounts, both fine, they actually look brand new. just replaced the D/S one last night, to no avail...
is it possable to have spun a bering without any knock sound? i have the standard lifter ticking but no knocks whatso-ever.
clutch engauges and disengagues fine.
wheels/tires/bearings all good, this is an RPM related vibration, comes on during decel/accel at 3k-5k dont notice any performance loss, grew some nuts and gave it a good mash in 3rd down the street and diddnt feel any diff than normal (performance wise) but the vibe is baaaad. allmost like when you are holding on to the handle of a 6hp lawnmower that the blade is longer on one side then the other..i will try to go out and get a little noise video and post that, hopefully it will help.

DSCF1020.flv video by jaymattsen - Photobucket
theres the link to the sound vid.
car used to go vroooommm vrooooomm
now goes broooom broooom
easiest way to discribe it .

 

[rush2252]

hmmm sounds like the timing is waaaay off by the sound but you said that it has good performance

You turned the motor over 6 times etc and the oil pump lined back up correct? If the Harmonic Dampener / balancer / big pulley on crank is good possibly spun balance shaft bearing? Is there any grinding noise or metal to metal sound ever? It honestly sounds like a balance shaft isnt in sync. Wait.. did you set the front BS 180* out from the rear once your readjusted the oil pump sprocket??


Kolby

 

[liquidz28]

all i did with the oil pump sprocket was turned it clockwise the 5 teeth it was off, then tightend everything back up, turned it a full 6, everything lined up at 3 and at 6 again.
just dont make any sense why the vibration hasnt changed at all. still vibes at the exact same spot it did before, no grinding, no banging its wierd. i would hate to have to get the motor built again, shits expensive.
how does it sound like the timing is off? is there another way to check it? everything is lined up exactly, dowels at 12 and all marks dead on.

 

[Lofty]

all i did with the oil pump sprocket was turned it clockwise the 5 teeth it was off, then tightend everything back up, turned it a full 6, everything lined up at 3 and at 6 again.
just dont make any sense why the vibration hasnt changed at all. still vibes at the exact same spot it did before, no grinding, no banging its wierd. i would hate to have to get the motor built again, shits expensive.
how does it sound like the timing is off? is there another way to check it? everything is lined up exactly, dowels at 12 and all marks dead on.

That knocking/ticking noise that stays with acceleration sounds ockies.

 

[Ill-EagleTSi]

Check out the rear drive shaft. It would probably vibrate at all speeds, but it couldn't hurt to look at it and make sure the balance weight didn't come off.

 

[rush2252]

Something tells me if the rear balance shaft/oil pump sprocket was off 5 teeth then the front BS is probably off as well. IM assuming you didnt bother to pull the belt completely off and check the position of the front BS. Whenever the rear BS is point to 3oclock the front should be at 9oclock they counterbalance each other to prevent harmonic vibrations.


Double check that and a +1 on ujoint or carrier bearing unless the motor vibrates at 3k with a free rev as well....


Kolby

 

[liquidz28]

ya, the engine vibes w/o movement, hence the video ;p

so what your sayn, is the front and rear balance shaft marks should not match the timing mark when at TDC?

Something tells me if the rear balance shaft/oil pump sprocket was off 5 teeth then the front BS is probably off as well. IM assuming you didnt bother to pull the belt completely off and check the position of the front BS. Whenever the rear BS is point to 3oclock the front should be at 9oclock they counterbalance each other to prevent harmonic vibrations.


Double check that and a +1 on ujoint or carrier bearing unless the motor vibrates at 3k with a free rev as well....


Kolby

ya, i actually pulled the belt off, did the ol spin trick. it is in phase for sure.
i am beginning to think its clutch/flywheel related.

 

[t25fury]

have you checked with a screw driver to make SURE the balance shaft is in phase, a bad vibration after 3k is a definite sign that one of your balance shafts is out of phase


see #24 on this link

Timing Belt VFAQ

 

[EVO_THREE]

have you checked with a screw driver to make SURE the balance shaft is in phase, a bad vibration after 3k is a definite sign that one of your balance shafts is out of phase


see #24 on this link

Timing Belt VFAQ

As above, you may be 180 Degrees out - I'll bet that's what it is..

Just because it lines up, it doesn't make it right.

 

[liquidz28]

OK. ill tear it all apart again and check that out.....so..........tired....

im just tryn to figure this out, so what you guys are sayn is on my first set of pics, the oil sprocket should have been "on" as far as the timing mark was concerned, basically alligned on time with the exhaust stroke?

anyone have a diagram where the plughole in the rear is supposed to be, motor is still in the car so i cannot see back there, i tried feelin around with my hands but theres tons of differant nuts/bolts back there, i feel so dumb right now, i cant fix my shit....if it had a carb and more displacement it would be fixxed allready!

 

[rush2252]

You could always remove the boot from around the shift fork and shine a light into the bellhousing on your tranny and make sure you dont have and bolts laying in the bottom of it.

I still am leaning towards BS. You said the car just started acting up and seeing how far the oil pump shaft was out something has to be going on with the front one. I would still be leaning BS before tranny/flywheel.



Kolby

 

[liquidz28]

You could always remove the boot from around the shift fork and shine a light into the bellhousing on your tranny and make sure you dont have and bolts laying in the bottom of it.

I still am leaning towards BS. You said the car just started acting up and seeing how far the oil pump shaft was out something has to be going on with the front one. I would still be leaning BS before tranny/flywheel.



Kolby

see, i agree with you rush. and the other gentlemen that said bs 180 out. so i will be spending the next 7 hours of my free time pulling that shit apart again. wife just told me i should sell it, and i was thinking to myself what it would be like to be single.


J/K


whats really funny about this whole ordeal, is i cant wait to get off work and rush home and get dirty..

i forgot to tell you guys how i depressed the plunger in the auto tensioner, its pretty funny...i dont have a vice so i stuck it on my floor jack and put it under my z28 and jacked it up. it worked ...took a bit to find a allen wrench that small, but for those of you that have not had to depress that thing it will in fact go in, just takes time, ###### a whole 60 seconds for it to fully go in, so be patient...and dont think just because it goes in all slow that it wont spring out with the lightning like quickness, ### it will, it will fully extend in less than a second (if it is working correctly) so make sure to have a small piece of hardend steel, ( small allen wrench ) ### this bad boy will turn a nail into a taco real fast.

 

[rush2252]

haha single and DSMless... I think My best advice is spend some time with the wifey or at least bring home flowers. Take a break Ive been working on the 2g non stop for a few weeks and sometimes its better to get some sleep and keep the peace

Why is it taking you 7 hrs? I would just lower the motor and remove the timing cover and check everything out before I tore it out.


Kolby

 

[liquidz28]

welp, it i beleave was out 180 degrees, got it all straighted up, started at 6 and done at 9 not bad, i guess practice makes perfect...except something happend this time that diddnt last time, i diddnt clamp the belt to the cams like a dumbshit and guess what happend...ya
so spent most of the time lining everything back up, took 4 autotensioner recompresses to get the job done ....i cant get to the back plug so i did the spin trick, turned it 1/4 of a turn on the oil sprocket and it fell clockwise, so gave her the once over and sure as shit it fell counterclockwise tword the mark. cross your fingers.....ill put it all back togeather tomarrow after work, i cant wait..i wanna go put her back togeather right now but i know ill be out driving and i need to be in bed ..

ps...the allenwrench broke on the 4th attempt, so have more than 1 itty bitty allen when you do the tensioner recompression...

 

[snakeyes711]

Easiest way to check if its correct is loosen the belt off the teeth, and place the arrow straight up (12oclock) if it falls back towards the notch for being in time its turned right. If it turns the other way its out of time.

 

[liquidz28]

went to check the oil...handle broke off the dipstick

 

[snowborder714]

So you compressed your tensioner pin back in the body in a minute? Next time go much slower, unless you want to break it. When I do it in a bench vise, it usually takes about 5 minutes to do. I turn the handle less than 1/2 turn then wait 20 seconds and repeat.

And yes, I like the advice about having more than one pin/allen wrench on hand. I snapped an allen wrench the last time I had to compress it and had to search all over for one.

 

[liquidz28]

So you compressed your tensioner pin back in the body in a minute? Next time go much slower, unless you want to break it. When I do it in a bench vise, it usually takes about 5 minutes to do. I turn the handle less than 1/2 turn then wait 20 seconds and repeat.

And yes, I like the advice about having more than one pin/allen wrench on hand. I snapped an allen wrench the last time I had to compress it and had to search all over for one.

well after doing it about 7 times, i was wrong on the first "60" seconds, it is more like 4-5 mins, and you cannot go any faster, it does it at its own pace

 

[liquidz28]

further more.....i would like to thank everyone on the forums that assisted with this annomoly...got it all put togeather tonight, started it up and boom, the head came right off, broke every one of the studs and shot fire out of the turbo...is that bad?


WTF

just kidding, thank everyone once again
THE PROBLEM IS SOLVED!!!
no more vibe, no more rough idle, no more greasy hands (till next weekend)
up and running smmoth as ever. WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT!!!!

and again, thanks everyone, im sure this has been somewhat of a learning experiance for everyone and i enjoyed working with you all!

next stop, axium motorsports for a tune job!