OMG My Talon is a nightmare

[Tamatalon39]

Ok so My car is new to me I bought it off of Ebay, the head was trashed as well as the wiring not finished. this is a 6 bolt swap. into a 2nd gen car.

The problem is I got it to idle but not very well it smells like a butt load of fuel with a very bad miss and very poor throttle response,the fuel smell is so bad it burns my nose. I swapped the injector lines on the ecu like they say to do. I also have the spark plug wires correct also,

however I do not have a full exhaust just a 02 pipe,right off the turbo. and I have read that 2nd cars have 2 O2 sensors, if this is the case would that sound like my problem.

another thing I noticed is there is a plug on the throttle body which looks like an idle switch, which is unplugged, is this normal with a 6 bolt swap or should I find a wire for this???

 

[Boostinsideways]

The 2nd o2 is for catalyst monitoring only.

 

[kenamond]

Might be the idle speed controller that's unplugged on the TB. Might explain the idle issue. But the rich issue wouldn't be related. Looks like there's some work cut out for you.

Any idea what all has been done (more details than just "6 bolt swap" would help). Any idea if the ECU was chipped or reprogrammed? Injectors? If they upgraded injectors and chipped the ECU but then yanked the ECU or reverted back to stock settings before selling, you'd run way rich (larger injectors flow too much fuel on stock settings).

Is there an AFPR? Might be set to too-high fuel pressure.

Check that all of the vaccuum lines are in place, boost leak test, etc. That's help with a rich condition under load. At idle, the ECU should be closed-loop using the O2 sensor.

Firing on all 4?

Whole lot of things could be causing this.

Good luck!

 

[phunny]

Have you done a boost leak test yet? No questions should even be asked until this is complete. Sounds like you may have a hack job on your hands :/. Pictures are worth 1,000 words though.

 

[Tamatalon39]

Might be the idle speed controller that's unplugged on the TB. Might explain the idle issue. But the rich issue wouldn't be related. Looks like there's some work cut out for you.

Any idea what all has been done (more details than just "6 bolt swap" would help). Any idea if the ECU was chipped or reprogrammed? Injectors? If they upgraded injectors and chipped the ECU but then yanked the ECU or reverted back to stock settings before selling, you'd run way rich (larger injectors flow too much fuel on stock settings).

Is there an AFPR? Might be set to too-high fuel pressure.

Check that all of the vaccuum lines are in place, boost leak test, etc. That's help with a rich condition under load. At idle, the ECU should be closed-loop using the O2 sensor.

Firing on all 4?

Whole lot of things could be causing this.

Good luck!

the engine appears to be a stock 6 bolt, it has a copper head gasket to lower the compression alittle, stock FPR however the injector are red top injectors somebody said they were EVO 550. not sure if this is true not sure if the ECU was chipped as nobody told me anything about this car when i bought it.

all vaccuum lines are present. I will look into a boost leak test i did a vaccum leak test while running (spray carb cleaner near any possible area) and everything seems to be in order there.

it doesnt idle to pull a spark plug wire to see if it is firing on all 4

 

[crash89]

I bought it off of Ebay

Heres your problem..

If you say the car has Evo 550s I would start looking for some stockers.. Maybe crack open the ECU and check to see if its chipped for the 550s. Any other kind of tuning things in the car? SAFC? Anything? Other then that only things I can say people have already said.. PICs?

 

[NickF509]

You also say it smells very bad but has a straight pipe, not a full exhaust even, am I reading it right that the exhaust ends right after the down pipe?

Straight pipes smell bad if you've never smelled one before.

 

[dral24]

Heres your problem..

If you say the car has Evo 550s I would start looking for some stockers.. Maybe crack open the ECU and check to see if its chipped for the 550s. Any other kind of tuning things in the car? SAFC? Anything? Other then that only things I can say people have already said.. PICs?

yeah check to see if u can find a pair if needed i have 2 sets of 1g blue top 450's which are stock for the 6bolts i can send ya a pair and also like he said open up the ecu see if its eprom nd has been chipped or if its just a stock untouched ecu thrown back in before sale... anyway good luck!

 

[Tamatalon39]

yeah check to see if u can find a pair if needed i have 2 sets of 1g blue top 450's which are stock for the 6bolts i can send ya a pair and also like he said open up the ecu see if its eprom nd has been chipped or if its just a stock untouched ecu thrown back in before sale... anyway good luck!

OK i will look for stock injectors, and I will look into the ECU my question about that is Will it be obvious that is has some sort of chip? (like a sticker or something)I do plan on using some sort of fuel mangment down the road but just wanna make it run correctly first...

As far as Ebay is concerned, I paid 1025$ for an AWD 95 Talon with decent paint and no dings or dents with aftermarket wheels and new tires. and a 6 bolt engine. 16g turbo and big ass intercooler.etc. I feel that the deal was too good to pass up. well worth the work needed to make it right.

yeah check to see if u can find a pair if needed i have 2 sets of 1g blue top 450's which are stock for the 6bolts i can send ya a pair and also like he said open up the ecu see if its eprom nd has been chipped or if its just a stock untouched ecu thrown back in before sale... anyway good luck!

OK i will look for stock injectors, and I will look into the ECU my question about that is Will it be obvious that is has some sort of chip? (like a sticker or something)I do plan on using some sort of fuel mangment down the road but just wanna make it run correctly first...

As far as Ebay is concerned, I paid 1025$ for an AWD 95 Talon with decent paint and no dings or dents with aftermarket wheels and new tires. and a 6 bolt engine. 16g turbo and big ass intercooler.etc. I feel that the deal was too good to pass up. well worth the work needed to make it right.

also I only have the pipe directly off of the turbo that holds the O2 sensor (not sure what it is actually called) that is how i got the car.

i pulled the plugs and they are very black so def. a too rich condition. I think the larger injectors could very well be my problem. can i use stock injectors with a 16g

 

[dral24]

OK i will look for stock injectors, and I will look into the ECU my question about that is Will it be obvious that is has some sort of chip? (like a sticker or something)I do plan on using some sort of fuel mangment down the road but just wanna make it run correctly first...

As far as Ebay is concerned, I paid 1025$ for an AWD 95 Talon with decent paint and no dings or dents with aftermarket wheels and new tires. and a 6 bolt engine. 16g turbo and big ass intercooler.etc. I feel that the deal was too good to pass up. well worth the work needed to make it right.

eprom ecu's usually have a "E" in the lower right corner of the sticker on the face plate but u can easily put a eprom face plate on a non eprom to really be sure if its eprom or chipped open it carefully and check for the eprom or another chip like this where it says EB26... it will either have a chip there or none at all just a big black green space on the mother board..
eprom

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

or eprom ecu is on the left, non eprom is on the right of this pic
http://sixthsphere.com/storage2/images/g7qiwr11wj7na6pvqa3w.jpg

if the ecu is chipped it must be converted to eprom to chip it so now u kno what to look for let me kno if u have any questions

also I only have the pipe directly off of the turbo that holds the O2 sensor (not sure what it is actually called) that is how i got the car.

i pulled the plugs and they are very black so def. a too rich condition. I think the larger injectors could very well be my problem. can i use stock injectors with a 16g

its actually called an o2 housing and yeah i believe thats ## problem and yes 16g is a factory upgrade so 450's will work and like i said i have 450's i'll trade u for your 550's

your like almost 3 hours from me tho just let me know

 

[kenamond]

Most '95 turbo DSMs have an EPROM ECU (us later-gen owners buy 'em up so we can program or chip 'em). If you have larger injectors and an EPROM, and the injectors are the current issue, I'd see if you can find a known stock '95 ECU (who knows what's loaded in your EPROM), put stock injectors in it, see if that fixes it, then put the 550's back in and either get a chip for those injectors or look into a tuning/programming option to make use of what you bought. If you have lower compression, a newly rebuilt 6-bolt, large FMIC, and a 16g, then putting stock injectors back into it is sort of sinful. But you have to get everything sorted out first...might be something else.

Hoping it's just the injectors.

The only thing missing once you figure it out is an exhaust and pump/lines/AFPR to push enough fuel through the 550s up to redline at 20psi boost. Have you happened to pull the pump out to see if it's stock? Any hope in building up a list of questions and asking the seller?

Keep the info coming.

 

[Tamatalon39]

Most '95 turbo DSMs have an EPROM ECU (us later-gen owners buy 'em up so we can program or chip 'em). If you have larger injectors and an EPROM, and the injectors are the current issue, I'd see if you can find a known stock '95 ECU (who knows what's loaded in your EPROM), put stock injectors in it, see if that fixes it, then put the 550's back in and either get a chip for those injectors or look into a tuning/programming option to make use of what you bought. If you have lower compression, a newly rebuilt 6-bolt, large FMIC, and a 16g, then putting stock injectors back into it is sort of sinful. But you have to get everything sorted out first...might be something else.

Hoping it's just the injectors.

The only thing missing once you figure it out is an exhaust and pump/lines/AFPR to push enough fuel through the 550s up to redline at 20psi boost. Have you happened to pull the pump out to see if it's stock? Any hope in building up a list of questions and asking the seller?

Keep the info coming.

thats kinda what I was thinking I want to keep the injectors after I figure out it that is ther problem and get a programmer for them. I do have a 95 GST maybe i can snag the injectors from it to test my theory..

the person I bought the car from was a used car dealer from down south he doesn't know much history on the car. already tried that. havent checked the pump yet just assumed it was stock because it wasn't loud

 

[romeen]

Ok so My car is new to me I bought it off of Ebay, the head was trashed as well as the wiring not finished. this is a 6 bolt swap. into a 2nd gen car.

The problem is I got it to idle but not very well it smells like a butt load of fuel with a very bad miss and very poor throttle response,the fuel smell is so bad it burns my nose. I swapped the injector lines on the ecu like they say to do. I also have the spark plug wires correct also,

If you are using a 1G CAS then you might be getting a random misfire code which can cause the car to run like ass. Is your check engine light on? Either way, check to see if the ECU is throwing any codes. Autozone can pull the codes for you for free.

however I do not have a full exhaust just a 02 pipe,right off the turbo. and I have read that 2nd cars have 2 O2 sensors, if this is the case would that sound like my problem.

As already mentioned, the 2nd O2 sensor is only used to verify proper catalyst function. It shouldn't cause any driveability issues.

another thing I noticed is there is a plug on the throttle body which looks like an idle switch, which is unplugged, is this normal with a 6 bolt swap or should I find a wire for this???

Are you using a 1G TB? If so there is a switch with a single spade connector on the firewall side of the TB next to the throttle pulley. That does not need to be hooked up since 2G's have the idle stop switch built into the 4 wire TPS. So you can ignore that.

 

[Tamatalon39]

If you are using a 1G CAS then you might be getting a random misfire code which can cause the car to run like ass. Is your check engine light on? Either way, check to see if the ECU is throwing any codes. Autozone can pull the codes for you for free.




As already mentioned, the 2nd O2 sensor is only used to verify proper catalyst function. It shouldn't cause any driveability issues.




Are you using a 1G TB? If so there is a switch with a single spade connector on the firewall side of the TB next to the throttle pulley. That does not need to be hooked up since 2G's have the idle stop switch built into the 4 wire TPS. So you can ignore that.

cool I was wondering about that it is unhooked so thats cool I am not sure if the check engine light is working correctly because it doesn't light up when the key is first turned on... the PO put a white set of guages in and I havent checked into a few things (fuel guage doesn't work and the Illumination doesn't work either)

 

[kenamond]

cool I was wondering about that it is unhooked so thats cool I am not sure if the check engine light is working correctly because it doesn't light up when the key is first turned on... the PO put a white set of guages in and I havent checked into a few things (fuel guage doesn't work and the Illumination doesn't work either)

I agree that you should go to Autozone and see if the ECU stored any codes. If the light isn't working, there may be a lot of codes that might help you out.

I don't know squat about the dash other than how to wire your boost gauge light into the dimmer so I can't offer anything there. I'd consider getting the idiot light to work, though, because it can warn you when something's going wrong that might not be obvious while you're driving.

 

[Tamatalon39]

got factory injectors so tomorrow i will install them and see whats up. I have to see what and OBD1 diagnostic tester costs maybe I will just buy one. I will keep everyone posted,

 

[2g4me]

Hate to say bro and not hatin at all, but u dont buy a car from a stranger not know anything about it, especially if its a unfinished project, off ebay nonetheless. The potential cost to finish it may cost u more in the end than buying a good running one, with mods even, just sayin!

 

[Alex7747]

Hate to say bro and not hatin at all, but u dont buy a car from a stranger not know anything about it, especially if its a unfinished project, off ebay nonetheless. The potential cost to finish it may cost u more in the end than buying a good running one, with mods even, just sayin!

agreed

 

[romeen]

got factory injectors so tomorrow i will install them and see whats up. I have to see what and OBD1 diagnostic tester costs maybe I will just buy one. I will keep everyone posted,

Even though some car manufacturers didn't switch over to OBD2 until their 1996 models I believe that ALL 2G DSMs are OBD2.

 

[2g4me]

Even though some car manufacturers didn't switch over to OBD2 until their 1996 models I believe that ALL 2G DSMs are OBD2.

Unfortunately no, i've had a couple 95's that werent, and a hassle to figure out even small issues sometimes, havnt had a DSM older than 96 since.

 

[romeen]

Unfortunately no, i've had a couple 95's that werent, and a hassle to figure out even small issues sometimes, havnt had a DSM older than 96 since.

Thanks for correcting me on that. Those were probably built in the early part of 1995.

OP, if unsure which one you have this will help you:

http://www.obdii.com/connector.html#dates

 

[Tamatalon39]

car is running now thanks everyone for the suggestions> and all total I'd say I have about 2300 including the cost of the car and shipping it up here from virginia plus what I have bought for upgrade or to make it run. so

I am very pleased with my purchase. I dont mind risks, and I know ebay is probably you guys worst nightmare but nobody was selling one for anywhere near that price.

now I just need a DP and exhaust to get it on the road

 

[2g4me]

car is running now thanks everyone for the suggestions> and all total I'd say I have about 2300 including the cost of the car and shipping it up here from virginia plus what I have bought for upgrade or to make it run. so

I am very pleased with my purchase. I dont mind risks, and I know ebay is probably you guys worst nightmare but nobody was selling one for anywhere near that price.

now I just need a DP and exhaust to get it on the road

Good to hear, now enjoy it and treat it well!

 

[razon35]

never buy a car off ebay

 

[kenamond]

Awesome! Glad you're making progress.
And for those who are bashing your eBay purchase, all I have to say is that your could have parted that car out for much more than you paid for it. $1025 is a steal for what you got. I'd have done it just for spare parts (and the EPROM ECU).

Stick with it. Learn. Fix. Build. Fix. Fix some more. Oh, and fix.