Ok. Please verify if I'm going in the right direction for AWD tranny into FWD

[dsm-onster]

I've been researching all morning. I am looking to swap a built awd tranny to my fwd. I want a TRE tranny w/ everything. But, in case I get sick of FWD, I dont want to buy ANOTHER built tranny for an AWD chassis.

What I need:

1. AWD flywheel
2. AWD flywheel backplate
3. Welded center diff or spool lock thing
4. halfshafts from the AWD
That's it

NOW, what my research has told me:

1. 93-94 halfshafts are bigger. Consequently stronger.
2. You'll have to get these halfshafts to swap in a 93-94 AWD tranny anyway. 91-92 spline count is the same as 93-94 but the 91-92 shafts have a smaller diameter.
3. 93-94 trannies shift better because of the linkage, but not the internals
4. 93-94 AWD trannies are stronger
5. My 1990 tranny is the weakest
6. If I get a 91-92 tranny then I'll have to get 91-92 halfshafts because the spline count is different in the front differential in a 1990 awd tranny.
7. All AWD front halfshafts are equal length.
8. I have a/c, so I do not need the spacer neccesary for the driveshaft swap.
9. I will need to insure that I have the correct awd seal, correct?

Basically getting a 1993-1994 AWD tranny w/ the bigger half shafts is what sounds the best from my research. Am I right? . . . What am I missing? . . . Is this info correct? What's wrong w/ anything I've mentioned so far?

 

[pneumo]

Only the 93 + up FWD cars got larger diameter half shafts. All year AWD cars used the same size as the 90-92 FWD cars. So you can keep your passenger side driveaxle, dunno if that'll save any money.

If you get an AWD trans from 1990 you can keep your shifter (the one inside the car) If you get a trans from 91-94 you should swap the shifter and cables to match. If you're getting a fully built trans from a knowledgeable shop and you <B>don't</B> want to swap your shifter and cables you can ask them to install a shift arm for a 90 in the trans so it matches your shifter.

 

[SBstar]

pneumo beat me to it about the cables and shifter. But I'm going to suggest talking to Jon and TRE if thats where your getting your trans rebuilt at, Jon is extremely knowledgable about dsms and may know which direction to point you.

 

[dsm-onster]

Thanx you guys for clearing that up for me .

I have been under the impression that 1990 AWD trannies cost lot's more to upgrade. But what you're saying is that just swapping out the shift arm in the 1991-1994 w/ my 1990 will give my the more easily modifiable tranny (that will save money) and I won't have to do any shifter swaps.

Now the shift arm. Is it just a drop in swap or does the 1991-1994 tranny or the 1990 shift arm have to be modified? I know TRE or Shep or Jacks or Dog Box would know. . . BUT. . .

 

[dsm-onster]

In adition to my first question, Is it just a drop in swap or does the 1991-1994 tranny or the 1990 shift arm have to be modified? . . .

Doesn't the driverside AWD front shaft have a "support" for the jack shaft? Don't I need to purcase this too? or does this come w/ the driverside axle set?

 

[SBstar]

Pretty simply put you'll need to do a search, there are a few miscellaneous brackets, cables, and levers that you need to do this correctly. But, before you go thinking it will be more expensive to modify your 90 call up TRE, I know Shep charges more for the 90 trans but I've been led to believe TRE doesn't charge more.

 

[nightspeed87]

Im running a 1990 gst tranny in a 93 and I didnt have to swap shifter cables ,
you just have to swap the shifter brackets that goes onto the tranny to 91-94 and it should work. If not then it must be different from going from 93 to 90 tranny opposed from going from 90 to 93.

And your passenger side actual should be identical to the awd model, so you shouldnt have to swap that either.
And yes the 90s tranny is more expensive to built ( in a performance aspect at least say if your trying to do double synchros and stuff ) because internally its a little different and has a few different part numbers in there that makes it harder/more expensive to modify to the 91-94 trannys part numbers to allow the performance build up on it.

I would pull a 93 94 awd tranny like you say...
And have you thought about doing a awd conversion to your fwd
Once you get done with the tranny related stuff all youll have left to do is just pick up
awd sway bars and suspension compents, also the drive shaft rear axles, transfer case, and a awd gas tank or fuel cell and then chop off the dip in the hatch were the tear well goes and perhaps just sheet metaling the hatch area which wouldnt be hard if you have a good metal cutter and a welder.

 

[dsm-onster]

Im running a 1990 gst tranny in a 93 and I didnt have to swap shifter cables ,
you just have to swap the shifter brackets that goes onto the tranny to 91-94 and it should work. If not then it must be different from going from 93 to 90 tranny opposed from going from 90 to 93.

That would be nice to know if it is true for sure. Does anyone concure?

And have you thought about doing a awd conversion to your fwd
Once you get done with the tranny related stuff all youll have left to do is just pick up
awd sway bars and suspension compents, also the drive shaft rear axles, transfer case, and a awd gas tank or fuel cell and then chop off the dip in the hatch were the tear well goes and perhaps just sheet metaling the hatch area which wouldnt be hard if you have a good metal cutter and a welder.

I've thought about it but I don't want this thread to get locked .

Further, I've looked everywhere on this forum and on the web just to get the FRONT PART of the AWD conversion done, and I get locked theads and dead end links. I don't want to think about the rear yet. I just want an AWD tranny in my FWD 1G. And, everything has been locked before info was given out about it. No matter how hard or wasteful the awd conversion is, knowing how to get equal length half shafts in a 1g would be useful AND having the various shep/tre AWD performance stages would be nice for FWD guys. Besides, I think I can get more out of a modified FWD suspension w/ AWD gears. The most important thing for me is that, if I get tired of the FWD platform, I can swap all my parts over to a good awd body (including my BUILT tranny) and have a good AWD plenty ready for a 10 sec slip. . . .

Can someone direct me to the thread that discusses a 1g awd conversion and/or swaping in equal length half shafts into a 1G FWD? Either ME or the search engine is having a senior moment (think it's me. . .I just had one in another thread I posted in ). I know there's no real concise thread on getting an AWD tranny into a 1G FWD becasue SBstar stated, "there are a few miscellaneous brackets, cables, and levers that you need to do this correctly." Since I havn't seen what else is needed other than the linkage or shift arm changed for a 1991-1994 AWD and the correct driverside shaft, then I'm assuming the threads I have are not detailed enough. . .

 

[dsm-onster]

Thanx for all the help so far guys .

Ok I'm finding what I need By searching for one Componenet at a time. As for the equal length half shafts for the AWD. It swaps right into a FWD. SO technically I can get away not having the AWD drivers side shaft when putting an AWD tranny into a fwd. BUT, since I'm there I might as well get the AWD shaft to coutner the HUGE torque steer I'm getting.

What I may do is just get the ELHS swap done first. And get a time difference from stock shaft. So that others and myself can see if that makes a real difference. Then put in the built tranny that I'll get and see if the gear ratios really help the FWD when the suspension has been tweeked. . .

But, anyway. I still don't see any other complication other than getting:

1. AWD transmission
2. AWD flywheel
3. AWD flywheel backplate
4. Welded center diff or spool locker
5. If I'm putting in a 1991-1994 AWD tranny, then I need either the shifter bracket or the shifter arm from the 1990 FWD tranny.
6. No passenger halfshaft needed. And, it seams that I don't TECHNICALLY need the driverside halfshaft and jack shaft/carrier bearing. But I want that anyway. . .

So this is the new route. Is this corrected to the right direction?

Again thanx

 

[dsm-onster]

I 'm putting way too many posts in my own thread .

But I've also been researching differentials. I know the final drive of all FWD turbos is 4.153 vs. 1G AWD is 4.929. Now I've heard that the differential is the same between all 1990-1999 DSMs via this thread: AWD Front Differential Interchange. So is it safe to assume that the gear attached to the diff is the only difference? I have an lsd insert in my current (front) diff. I don't want to spend another 200 bones for one. . .

 

[Maglin]

Matt.

The main difference between a 90 and a late 90-94 AWD trans is the 2nd upshift syncro. On early 90 AWD tranny's they used a single syncro and the later on up used a double syncro. Singles are just fine but they are not as tolerant to missed shifts as double syncro's are. You miss a shift it really really wears on the single syncro. The rest of the hard parts excpet the shifter arms is the same. You would also want to get the transfer case that was on that tranny if you do plan on going AWD sometime in the future. It can be a real PITA to find the right transfer case. The worst thing about converting your car will be that you won't be able to apply for a new xfer case when it fails through Mitsu/Chrysler as it's a FWD car.

You want a center diff spool to be able to run FWD. I have a TRE tranny with center spool in my AWD. Turning is a pain as I also have no P/S, but it helps me not wear so much on my tires as I never go to the locks now. Almost can't. I happen to have an AWD tranny and transfer case in my garage. I've taken my TRE apart a few times to check my syncro's and gears for wear. They use old school methods to allow high RPM engagment. And really I don't know any other way myself but it was something I knew about in the past and was going to do through this tranny to have a decent back up. Probably get the 4th gear hardned as well.

 

[dsm-onster]

The main difference between a 90 and a late 90-94 AWD trans is the 2nd upshift syncro. On early 90 AWD tranny's they used a single syncro and the later on up used a double syncro. Singles are just fine but they are not as tolerant to missed shifts as double syncro's are. You miss a shift it really really wears on the single syncro. The rest of the hard parts excpet the shifter arms is the same. You would also want to get the transfer case that was on that tranny if you do plan on going AWD sometime in the future. It can be a real PITA to find the right transfer case. The worst thing about converting your car will be that you won't be able to apply for a new xfer case when it fails through Mitsu/Chrysler as it's a FWD car.

Man this is good to know. . . thanx This will help me tie up the loose ends for this season.

You want a center diff spool to be able to run FWD. I have a TRE tranny with center spool in my AWD. Turning is a pain as I also have no P/S, but it helps me not wear so much on my tires as I never go to the locks now. Almost can't. I happen to have an AWD tranny and transfer case in my garage. I've taken my TRE apart a few times to check my syncro's and gears for wear. They use old school methods to allow high RPM engagment. And really I don't know any other way myself but it was something I knew about in the past and was going to do through this tranny to have a decent back up. Probably get the 4th gear hardned as well.

I REALLY want a centerspool now that I'm thinking about it. . .You're right. If I convert to/buy an AWD chassis, I want to be able to lock that sucker up at the track. but still be able to drive around town later. I havn't had P/S in years .

I'm really interested in swapping the FWD final gear into the AWD tranny to see any results. I'm calculating shift points, wheel torque, and it SEAMS to be a good fit for a car w/ more traction than a stock FWD but not enough to equal an AWD. . . .

 

[Maglin]

I don't think they interchange. Not for certain though. Cause of the center diff and what not I don't believe the front diff is the same. I've not torn a FWD tranny apart though.

 

[dsm-onster]

Maybe w/ your tranny I'll just have to pull 'em both apart and take a look see, myself.

 

[nightspeed87]

yea turns out I may be going awd as well but as in buying a awd car and getting rid of my fwd, not to be a sell out though... but im just having too many frequent issues with my current car and ive been offered a hella good deal on a 11.9 sec quarter mile awd laser. But something to add ive heard the gearing in the fwd is better because its a little longer and a different final gear as you mentioned that allows for more top end I believe.
http://vfaq.com/index-main.html

Also couldnt you just get a gvr4 tranny for the fwd since its switchable . Because I dont see why you cant just use that tranny and leave it on fwd mod and if you ever do the awd swap then switch it back to awd... And dont you get that 11% taller 1st gear ratio with this tranny?

http://vfaq.com/index-main.html

 

[dsm-onster]

A taller gear is good for a stock fwd w/ no traction. I have a QUITE a bit more. . . I think I could benefit from the bigger gears. . .

The GVR4 gear would be nice but it is much weaker and many wont guarantee it at my current HP level much less my future goals. . . See Jacks Transmission GVR4 First Gear Warning

 

[pneumo]

The front diffs will swap. I did it. I used to have a Quaife in my 90 Laser. When I got the AWD Talon I put the Quaife in the Talon and the stock front diff from the Talon went into the Laser. The gears are different, 55 vs 58 teeth, so you'll have to keep the gear with the trans, they won't swap. The FWD diff uses tapered roller bearings, which are stronger. The AWD front diff uses ball bearings. If you can, keep the tapered roller bearings on your diff.

 

[pneumo]

A taller gear is good for a stock fwd w/ no traction. I have a QUITE a bit more. . . I think I could benefit from the bigger gears.

You realise by going to an AWD trans you will be getting a smaller first gear? Comparing awd to fwd ratios, first is smaller on AWD, second and third are about the same, and 4th is smaller on the AWD. The fwd trans has evenly spaced ratios, the awd trans has a big jump between 1/2, then a shorter jump between 3/4. IMHO you almost have to opt for a taller first gear in the awd trans to get off the line smoothly.

 

[dsm-onster]

you almost have to opt for a taller first gear in the awd trans to get off the line smoothly.

I did not know this. Perhaps this is why many AWD guys desire the taller GVR4 1st gear? I was under the impression that the AWD box had pretty good gearing for thier level of traction. . . I've only driven a t25 2g significantly hard enough to contribute any performance feedback in this respect. Of course w/ the super fast spool up, 1st gear isnt a waste. But I can see how a laggy turbo would just not really build any boost until second w/ a low (crawling) gear set. . .

A FWD final drive w/ a AWD tranny in a FWD car would be odd. But experimentally interesting . . .

 

[nightspeed87]

I did not know this. Perhaps this is why many AWD guys desire the taller GVR4 1st gear? I was under the impression that the AWD box had pretty good gearing for thier level of traction. . . I've only driven a t25 2g significantly hard enough to contribute any performance feedback in this respect. Of course w/ the super fast spool up, 1st gear isnt a waste. But I can see how a laggy turbo would just not really build any boost until second w/ a low (crawling) great set. . .

A FWD final drive w/ a AWD tranny in a FWD car would be odd. But experimentally interesting . . .

Yea to me the awd gear ratios are too short thats why I mentioned the gvr4 tranny
but I have heard about it having a weaker gear but just didnt know to what degree it was weaker. Perhaps cryotreating that gear or some sort of strengthening...
It would still seem that would be the best option except for that part.
Also the awds 1st gear I would imagen would make 1st gear harder to hook up on a fwd car.