Nitrous System on 420a.

[96eclipse rs]

Okay i dont wanna turbo my n/t so im leaning towards a Nitrous System. My car has about 175,000 miles on it. I dont wanna rebuild my car until next winter. What would be the safest shot i could run on it?

 

[TSi Kid]

None.

 

[EagleT2000]

ZEX safe shot (15-35 hp) if any but i wouldn't risk it.

 

[Slo2gen]

You can run up to a 75 shot safely but you need to make sure the engine is in good working order and have the proper safety equipment to run the nitrous as well. I ran a 50 shot many moons ago from Nitrodaves.com and it wasn't what I wanted it to be so I bumped up to a 75 shot and got a bottle heater. Once I got all that done I was able to take it to the closest dyno and make a couple of pulls tuning the fuel jet and getting my AFR's right.

EDIT: I would really recommend running over a 100 shot on a stock bottom end and on a single fogger set up. Once you get to that big of a shot you need to have a motor that can handle it and you will also have flow issues with much bigger than that with getting different amounts of fuel/nitrous mixture in each cylinder.

I love nitrous, it makes more tq than any other type of FI out there and is cheap to get started on. The cost catches up to you from having to refill the tank all the time.

 

[Leonthefaded]

You can run up to a 75 shot safely but you need to make sure the engine is in good working order and have the proper safety equipment to run the nitrous as well. I ran a 50 shot many moons ago from Nitrodaves.com and it wasn't what I wanted it to be so I bumped up to a 75 shot and got a bottle heater. Once I got all that done I was able to take it to the closest dyno and make a couple of pulls tuning the fuel jet and getting my AFR's right.

EDIT: I would really recommend running over a 100 shot on a stock bottom end and on a single fogger set up. Once you get to that big of a shot you need to have a motor that can handle it and you will also have flow issues with much bigger than that with getting different amounts of fuel/nitrous mixture in each cylinder.

I love nitrous, it makes more tq than any other type of FI out there and is cheap to get started on. The cost catches up to you from having to refill the tank all the time.

Excellent

 

[98blackeclipse]

Since the subject of nitrous is here. How did you control timing. If the jets compensate for the gas needed. Is there a need to retard timing. For example on a 100 shot would you need to retard the timing and how much(just a guess. Every car is different).

 

[Slo2gen]

On a 75 shot and good gas(93 or E85) you don't need to worry about timing, but on a 100 shot or more, the only way to do it on a 420a car is by either an Ignition control module(IE: MSD, Screamin Demon, Crane, etc), or MS. Honestly I probably wouldn't worry about it on E85 for a 100 shot, but anything over that or even on a different motor I would deff recommend some way to control timing.

EDIT: I ran a 150 once on a 8.8 built bottom end and had an intake backfire because of the sudden pool of fuel. It blew the filter off my intake and popped my map sensor but when it was running it was MOVING, . It cut the car off after I let off the gas popped the map sensor, lost and intake filter, and burn the electrode off a spark plug. I deff don't recommend doing anything that big through a single fogger.

 

[Shake_Zulla]

If you want to follow slo2gen's advice and check how your engine is doing you can start with this...
2GNT.com - Engine_Compression_test

 

[98blackeclipse]

Would you agree that for every 50 HP of nitrous retard 2 degree of timing.

 

[Slo2gen]

Would you agree that for every 50 HP of nitrous retard 2 degree of timing.

As a general rule of thumb yes, I've noticed that the 420a engine are actually built pretty well as far as knock/preignition goes. I've noticed from messing with hondata/crome/ecmlink/msns with other cars and this one, it takes a good bit more "abuse" to get to the knock threshold on the 420a vs others.

Me personally(I'm not condoning this, just stating for what my mods where when I was NA and the grade of gasoline/E85 around this area is what I would do) I would run the 75 shot with a bottle heater(makes WORLDS of difference) and the correct safety equipment(fuel psi safety, burst tube, and thermostat, and a set line psi of around 1000-1120 psi of bottle psi) wouldn't pull any timing and just run it. I would start with a step colder plug and once its on the dyno try the stock heat range and if you can run it and don't have any issues with the run them. If I remember correctly I did have to run a colder plug though(NGK BKR7-E) when I had a stock compression motor.

 

[98blackeclipse]

Well thanks. You answered all my questions.

 

[EagleT2000]

While on the subject, How long could you run nos safely?

 

[Slo2gen]

While on the subject, How long could you run N2O safely?

That entirely depends on how often you use it, what kind of system it is, how the cars maintenance has been done etc. I've seen it run on cars for over a year and be fine but I've seen it break cars in 1 day. Honestly there is no set answer for this.

 

[TSi Kid]

Your car has a 180k and you want to run nitrous? Are you serious?

 

[Shake_Zulla]

Your car has a 180k and you want to run nitrous? Are you serious?

This has already been covered in posts 4, 7, 8 and 13 but thanks for... contributing?

 

[OZRallyEdition]

Is 50 shot okay for a 420a with 130k miles?

 

[codym]

No, unless you want to blow your head off. Anytime you add nitrous, you need new head studs that can handle the increased pressure, a new Head gasket, and the engine needs to be in prime operating condition.

 

[90gsxjuice]

^Why would he need new head studs and head gasket?
Do a compression test and leak down to make sure sure your motor is healthy.
A 50-75 is fine on stock timing run a step colder plug. A wet system is ideal and a wideband.

 

[codym]

Because it raises cylinder pressure from the excessive heat.

 

[90gsxjuice]

Maybe if he did a 150 shot but that baby 50 shot isn't gonna do anything.

 

[codym]

You'd be surprised the effects nitrous can have on a stock motor with over 130k.. Especially a motor that isn't designed to handle any form of forced induction from the factory.
Can he make it happen ? Probably. Should he? Not without taking the proper precautions.

 

[1G Eclipse94928]

Maybe if he did a 150 shot but that baby 50 shot isn't gonna do anything.

I wouldn't bet on the 420A.

 

[jonathanfl]

I wouldn't bet on the 420A.

Things like this is what drive people to do the impossible. Tell a man he cant do something and he'll do it twice over. As far as nos I have no experience but the 420a has been proven it can be much more than some little store runner.

 

[codym]

I never said nitrous can't be used , I just said the proper precautions need to be taken instead of putting nitrous on a stock 130k motor without doing anything. Your right the 420s have proven themselves in the past few years, but the people who are proving aren't strapping a NOS bottle to a stock daily driven car.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Things like this is what drive people to do the impossible. Tell a man he cant do something and he'll do it twice over. As far as nos I have no experience but the 420a has been proven it can be much more than some little store runner.

"Proven" on factory stock high mileage 420As of questionable maintenance history by folks new to nitrous oxide?

Did you just decide to run in and white-knight for 420As without consideration for what's being discussed? Or do you genuinely think this is a good idea?

A "50 shot" is enough oxygen to potentially increase output by ~40% in this application. If he had the fuel system to match it and a way to control timing/fuel as well as the ability to tune, but has done nothing to deal with the heat and pressure that actually makes the power it could prove a very expensive oversight.