new coilover question

[2gGst98]

Does anyone have any imput on megan racing EZ street series coilovers? I was originaly going to go with the tokico illumina's but I saw theese.
Megan Racing EZ Street Series Coilovers - 2G DSM 95-99 Eclipse - 2G DSM Coilovers - 2G 95-99 - Suspension - DSM Performance Parts | DSMparts.com
I hope the copy past thing works. I just like the price for them, and that they are 15 way adjustable.

now bust a solo

 

[2gGst98]

The last paragraph is what I was thinking Luda. That a coil over kit would be better cause the shocks are matched to the springs. But as u said Konis have a shorter travel, does that mean you can set it at any hight you want and get the same movement? Is their a website for me to look up how Koni shocks are made as a comparison to others? I do agree with everyone trying to cheep it ou on their car. I am saving for a little bit longer for the GC's I am ordering the Konis on friday (pay day). And by the way off topic, but I want to eventualy get a t28 not of a 16g wright or wrong choice? I hear the spool is a little bit faster on the
t28 but not by much. I just like the direct fit. Also do you have to have bigger injectors if you are running 12psi on a t28?

 

[jtmcinder]

The last paragraph is what I was thinking Luda. That a coil over kit would be better cause the shocks are matched to the springs.

If that were actually the case, then you'd have a point. But in a majority of the cases, it just isn't true. In most cases - by which I mean the cheap coilovers than are here being compared to a Koni/GC set-up - the shocks are whatever they are and the springs are whatever they are. When you ask for alternative springrates, for example, they slap on different springs and ship it off to you as a custom job. Did they actually match the shocks to the new springs? Of course not! Heck, you'd be lucky if the front two shocks actually match each other, let along have the proper valving for the springs!

This is part of what you are paying for when you get Konis, instead of crud from Taiwan. If you search around, you'll find a post where DG took his fancy new shock dyno and put a bunch of new Konis on it. The curves were very similar. You will not get this if you toss a bunch of pick-your-favorite-color shocks on a dyno. Most of all, the shims will blow open at completely different points for two supposedly identical shocks at the same settings etc etc. The item-to-item variability is outrageous. They are crud to be sold to the Great Unwashed. Yes, they are coilovers in the sense that you can adjust height, yadda, yadda. But they not a performance upgrade unless, as someone said earlier, your current shocks are blown.

ps. If you ask nicely, I'll tell you how I really feel.

 

[2gGst98]

ok I do have to say that makes alot more seince then what everyone esle said Not saying they didnt have good imput. I just understand that a little better. With the konis can I make it like a .5 inch drop? I dont want it lowered that much. Just a little lower than stock. I am a tall guy I would like to have nice controll and about stock hight. And I am shure any thing I buy will feel beter than what I feel now. It is way too stiff for me. What is valving? and how do you know you have propper valving for your springs?

 

[Ludachris]

And as Jtoby said - almost all of the true coilovers in the sub-@2k (and even some above that) range are not sold with shocks valved to match the spring rates, even with their default spring rates - due to the major variance in the shocks that come with those coilovers (mostly all of them that DSMers buy outside of Koni).

So again, your best bet in the sub $2k range for coilovers is to buy a set of Konis and Ground Controls (I know, I'm repeating myself again for the 15th time). The Konis might not be valved to match your specific spring rates but you can get them revalved later. And even with stock valving they'll be better than just about any of the alternative coilovers on the market. If you don't have the money for this combo and are considering buying lowering springs and cheaper than-Koni shocks instead, just save up until you have the money to buy the right parts. You'll save money in the long run.

 

[2gGst98]

Also I was looking at the knoi's on extremepsi.com they are 155 for the front and rear. Also on maperformance.com they are about the same (5$ more). but on macv.com they are 755 for all 4 of them. Is their a diffrence in them? They are all from the market place on this website.

I am saving for this set up. I just see a big diffrence in pricing on diffrent websites

I think I figured it out. The 155$ price I think that is for 1 shock cause it says you have to buy them in pairs. Is my thought correct?

And I just realized I am getting advice from a wise man and the founder. I have to thank both you for your time. I love my dsm and want to make it the best I can when I am done with it (time = a life time). So I do belive I am getting the best advice from the two of you and do appreciate it.

 

[Ludachris]

Yeah I think your pricing sounds about right. When you go to order your GC kit later, be sure to specify you have Konis. I know for the 1g there was a difference, not sure if that's the case for the 2g.

Just so you know, Jtoby and I (along with others) have been pushing people to go with this kit for years. We've seen some tests by people like Dennis Grant, and we've experienced some of the crap on the market that most DSMers buy. I run this kit on my 1g and wouldn't upgrade to anything else except for maybe some Hotbits coilovers, some Muellerized JICs, or some KW Clubsports modified by Robispec. Anything cheaper would be inferior to what I have now.

I am, however, going to try out a new kit from a new vendor here (DGR) on my 2g to see how they work. I'll see if I can run some tests on them. And I'll share my experiences with the community. If they prove to be good, I'll consider race versions of them for the 1g later.

 

[H4G64T]

Your average DSM doesn't need anything bigger than a 16g... or cheap street tires as opposed to drag radials... or stock seats as opposed to racing seats... etc, etc, etc - but does that stop people from going beyond? Nothing is a need-to-have in this hobby. So why sell yourself short and take short cuts on suspension? Why limit yourself to the shitty lowering spring solution? Why spend any money on parts that you will likely end up replacing later because you actually want better handling instead of a sporty feel that "seems" like better handling? To me that's like venting a knock-off BOV just so you can hear the sound - or buying a beat up used 16g with shaft play because that's all you can afford - save up a little longer and buy the right parts the first time and do the build right. If you can't afford it, wait until you can. But again, that's the mentality in this community - take short cuts and do everything on the cheap. And that's why we won't have quality parts available for us for much longer.

GC/Koni kit is about the same price as people are spending on some of these cheap true coilovers that are meant for the street (any of the sub $2k coilovers) and they aren't as good as Konis. That's the point I'm trying to make. There's this misconception that a true coilover is "better" than a GC/Koni kit because it's a complete package. Lowering springs really is a cheap way to lower the car, but it's not ideal for handling. As Jtoby said just before me, I'd rather have the Konis and cut stock springs rather than cheap shocks and lowering springs.

I agree with everything you are saying.

I just think your average weekend drag strip warrior will be just fine on some Illuminas and Pro Kits. Anything more intensive requires a real suspension setup/

 

[2gGst98]

But like I stated i the begining I do auto cross my car and will be trying out road racing. Not a drag, I dont like straight lines (no dissrespect) I just think it is boring after running a 9 sec nova. But I think what they are getting across is that they are the best set up for the price. Some people will be ok with cheep ones. But people that want true handeling and this is the best set up for the price. Correct me if im worng.

 

[H4G64T]

You aren't wrong, and as I also stated, if you are going to autocross or road race, the minimum you need is GC/Koni.

 

[jtmcinder]

You can drop .5" on Konis, but that's about the limit if you aren't running stiffer springs and have good tires. If you want to drop more, you'll want them shortened. (The single worst thing that I can think of for handling is hitting a bump-stop and if you trail-brake, you are risking the bump-stop on the outside front and that will give you a killer amount of understeer as the grip in that wheel suddenly disappears.) I think that I ended up down a tad over an inch on 1"-shortened Konis (which cuts 1/2" off the body, so it gains only 1/2" of travel), and I gave up some travel to the hats, but I had 900# front springs and no ABS, so I was OK.

 

[2gGst98]

I will be getting new tires once my suspencion is done. But with the GC set up what whould be the best hight to set it too?

I shuld have known that was a joke but i will give a late laugh.
hahahaha

 

[herblove]

I am, however, going to try out a new kit from a new vendor here (DGR) on my 2g to see how they work. I'll see if I can run some tests on them. And I'll share my experiences with the community. If they prove to be good, I'll consider race versions of them for the 1g later.[/QUOTE]

This is what I am waiting on. Luda I am listening to you since you seem to understand what you are talking about. I am one of the people who skimp on price for AGX/GC combo. Like you my shocks were blow in a year. Now I am lost on what to get for a 1g. The koni are available for just the fronts now. What option do we have now that is not a full race coil over (over 2k). Im waiting to see if DGR are going to be the last hope for 1g guys who want a complete modern day performance car feel (power and handling)

 

[Ludachris]

This is what I am waiting on. Luda I am listening to you since you seem to understand what you are talking about. I am one of the people who skimp on price for AGX/GC combo. Like you my shocks were blow in a year. Now I am lost on what to get for a 1g. The koni are available for just the fronts now. What option do we have now that is not a full race coil over (over 2k). Im waiting to see if DGR are going to be the last hope for 1g guys who want a complete modern day performance car feel (power and handling)

There were some people talking about trying to adapt the 2g rear Konis to the 1g rear, not sure how far that went. They are said to be very close in terms of mounting points. But I'm sure the valving is different, among other things. If I were you I'd look into that (I think the discussion took place in the road racing forum).

The next best option would be to go with Konis in the front and AGX in the rear for now... it's usually your front shocks that blow early. Go with a pair of new fronts and I'd bet the rear won't be that bad - set the AGX to full soft in the rear. Even then it's still pretty stiff/less compliant compared to the Koni.

And don't listen to only me - there are plenty here with more personal experience and data than I have. I just happen to read much of what they write and have had some experiences of my own at the track. I'm not an expert when it comes to this stuff, but I can tell you that everything I've learned has proven what the experts have said would happen. And I've found that trying to do anything on the cheap with suspension will only cost you more later.

 

[importracr317]

That is true to a degree but since I see misinformation and bad recommendations in every coil over recommendation on here I feel all searching is going to do is lead him down the wrong path. It is very disturbing seeing megan and twin being talked about here as high quality and stellar performance. I guess when you are coming off of shocks with 100k miles on them anything will feel good.I would like to see somebody disassemble a megan shock and compare it to a stock shock and see the internals all just as bad if not worse.

+1...story of this group of enthusiasts though..."what's the best (insert ebay part here) I can get for less than I should pay for that part"...so, so sad.

 

[LandoAWD]

The next best option would be to go with Konis in the front and AGX in the rear for now... it's usually your front shocks that blow early. Go with a pair of new fronts and I'd bet the rear won't be that bad - set the AGX to full soft in the rear. Even then it's still pretty stiff/less compliant compared to the Koni.

I have a lowly daily-drive/street car, but I run this setup. As noted, full soft in the rear is still VERY stiff.

 

[jtmcinder]

Gosh. An Asian shock with too much high-speed compression? What a shock, as it were.

As to adapting rear Konis from a 2G for a 1G, this seems like a good plan. The rear motion ratios are about the same and the rear weights are close, so there's a good chance that the default valving is appropriate. Given how wonderfully digressive a Koni is, it's almost definitely going to be better.

 

[importracr317]

I have a lowly daily-drive/street car, but I run this setup. As noted, full soft in the rear is still VERY stiff.

Pretty much the same story with all Asian shocks, as jtm so eloquently put it. I run Tein SS dampers on my car - it rides like a lumber truck. For street/light track use, there just isn't a great full coilover, reasonably priced, that has a great balance of low and high speed dampening.

This isn't isolated to cars either. The stock Showa/KYB suspensions on most sport bikes (including my Triumph) are overly stiff unless you turn the dampening way down. Even then, you're only scratching the surface of what you'd get with an Ohlins, RG3, etc.

 

[Ludachris]

+1...story of this group of enthusiasts though..."what's the best (insert ebay part here) I can get for less than I should pay for that part"...so, so sad.

That's the running joke about DSMers I've heard in other circles... many groups think of us as the "how can I run 11's with the $26 in my wallet" group. And that's not meant to be flattering, as some DSMers will try and say they mean we have great bang for the buck cars - sadly, what they mean is that we cut corners and trash our cars as a result of being broke ass kids. And with the exception of a small percentage of really fast DSMs, most of our cars are junk because of the insistence of doing things cheaply.

I've been guilty of this myself over the years. I've changed my philosophy so that if I don't have the means to do something the right way with the right parts I just wait until I do have the means to do it right, instead of using cheaper parts or attempting an inferior solution. This requires innovation and creativity these days due to the dwindling parts availability - a problem we've created for ourselves by buying the cheap garbage instead of the quality parts (like AGX or GR2 instead of Koni). Luckily we still have new vendors popping up from time to time who have solutions to some of our problems. I hope we'll continue to support those vendors and get more people to buy the quality parts that are still available before they get discontinued and all we have left is cheap crap that doesn't aid in true performance.

 

[2gGst98]

I thought that the 2g came with GR2's stock. I might be wrong but I looked it up when I noticed them on my car with lowering springs. They where not blown at first but after about 10 months and 4 races later they are now blown. So what about the coil over sets that are like 2k. Are they worth 1k more than the koni's? Also when I put the Koni GC set in my car what is a good hight, or is it just preference?

 

[Ludachris]

I thought that the 2g came with GR2's stock. I might be wrong but I looked it up when I noticed them on my car with lowering springs. They where not blown at first but after about 10 months and 4 races later they are now blown. So what about the coil over sets that are like 2k. Are they worth 1k more than the koni's? Also when I put the Koni GC set in my car what is a good hight, or is it just preference?

GR2's are basically a stock replacement.

I've listed in one of my replies, all of the coilovers I'd consider upgrading to from the Konis... look back on my replies in this thread.

Anything lower than about 1" will not yield much in terms of handling due to what JTC mentioned in one of his most recent replies about the 2g shock travel issue. Not to mention without roll center adjustment, you can't lower the car without throwing off the suspension geometry. With all that said, I think my 1g is about 1 to 1.5" lower than stock.

 

[jtmcinder]

GR2's are basically a stock replacement.

It's more than that. The OE shocks on a 2G are GR2s with different paint on them. Someone posted dyno plots (many years ago now). They are the same.