New celica gt beat GST?

[stuffy1256]

ok me and one of my friends were playing around when driving and we both floored it. Of course im thinking im gonna beat him bad cuz i got more hp.... but to my suprise he starts to pull away. Is something wrong with my car? He only has 140 HP! mine is an AT and his is a MT. I cleaned out my intercooler and replaced the air filter. All he has is an air filter for mods. I thought i shouldve smoked him. The only things wrong with my car is worn engine mounts and a little leak in the transmission. What do i do?!?!

 

[1GDSM2k3]

Switching through the gears can cause some damage to your transmission. It might get you a few more revs, But i dont think its worth it in the long run.

 

[nutshot]

Look, auto's will lose from a stop as well as a roll. That is the nature of choosing yer own gears. And direct drive helps too (autos never make direct connection). If you are serious about racing, bet a manual. If not, don't worry about losing to faster cars...

 

[nutshot]

if you want a really clear picture of the way an automatic works, versus the way a manual works, here's an example:

a car and a boat both have 1,000hp engines and (just to keep on being rediculous) 1,000ft/lbs of torque.

Now lets say that the car is RWD without an LSD. The boat has one prop that is a relatively large size (lets say 22" for now) and a 24 degree pitch. that's a pretty decent screw as far as power/speed goes.

Which one is going to accelerate faster? If we assume no wind or current?

Is it any real question why using a solid medium to transfer power works better than a liquid?

That's the thing about auto vs. manual. It's not all that suprising that you lost to a "slower" car. You're a second gen, so you weigh in somewhere around 3k pounds right? You're making without mods, maybe 210hp, although i figure that's a fairly generous estimate (compared to the 1g which has larger turbo, better head, etc and is only rated @ 195) and that's almost definitely at the crank, not at the wheels.

With an automatic transmission you can generally give a drivetrain power loss figure that's somewhere along the lines of a manual w/ AWD. Maybe 15-20% loss. Realistically speaking, i'd guess the power to the wheels to be somewhere in the 135-150hp range (with drivetrain loss, etc). That's fairly respectable. The GT celica has the 1ZZGE motor which is a 1.8 like in the GST (2ZZGE) but doesn't run as high of a compression or have the agressive VVT-i of the gts. I think they're making like 135. If he has a manual you're probably looking at a realistic 115-120 at the wheels. Given the fact that he weighs 500-600 pounds less than your 2g, it's not that suprising that he'd take you from a roll.

power to weight ratio. a 110hp motorcycle will destroy a DSM in the top end. It's the hole power to weight thing.

eh?

 

[slugsgomoo]

ergg.. damn you matt for using my computer.

i'm the one with the terrific boat/car -- auto/manual analogy.

<killz nutshot>

 

[stuffy1256]

nutshot: quit ragging on AT's alright! you know some of us dont have a choice of AT or MT... i know already that MT's are faster BUT it was against a CELICA with 140 HP. They are saying that i should have won because of the hp difference.... i know how autos and MT work..... but i should have won! Yes MT eclipse/talon/laser are faster than ATs but we're not talking about racing a DSM. So unless you have anything worth while to post and not just saying how autos are ssssoooo slow... then DONT POST!!!

 

[scorpion]

Originally posted by nutshot


With an automatic transmission you can generally give a drivetrain power loss figure that's somewhere along the lines of a manual w/ AWD. Maybe 15-20% loss. Realistically speaking, i'd guess the power to the wheels to be somewhere in the 135-150hp range (with drivetrain loss, etc). That's fairly respectable. The GT celica has the 1ZZGE motor which is a 1.8 like in the GST (2ZZGE) but doesn't run as high of a compression or have the agressive VVT-i of the gts. I think they're making like 135. If he has a manual you're probably looking at a realistic 115-120 at the wheels. Given the fact that he weighs 500-600 pounds less than your 2g, it's not that suprising that he'd take you from a roll.

Dude stop smoking crack, it's not good for you. How is 20% of 200 135-150? If a GS-T is making 135 at the wheels thatn something is not right with the car, I don't care what type of tranny it has. I haven't done much racing with my 97, but when I had an 01 GT I'd stomp on a celica GT and it was a drivers race with the GT-S. I know that my auto gs-t is a little slower than my 01 manny, but not by that much, otherwise I'd have never bought the car.

Now, you have a manny, great, grand, wonderful. Do you feal special? Stop being a troll, quit talking $$$$ to people with auto's. There isn't a damn thing wrong with owning an automatic, Gee most vettes made in the 90's where all autos, but I guess that a vette is a slow piece of crap too

 

[13secGST]

your right you should have smoked him...those cars run 17's stock maybe high 16's and last time I checked only 1 from newcelica.org had droped into high 14's with extensive work done...but I really don't remember. Get your car in proper running condition before you try to really race with people. And don't worry about the auto/manual thing...once you get 400ft/lbs if you ever do than an auto won't be soo bad

 

[midnght]

I know alot of Vette owners and Supra Owners that are VERY happy they got the AT. I think(?) the trans in some drag cars are a M/A trans hybrid so why would they even mix if the MT was the best.

Do't get me wrong, I love my MT but the AT is not like buying a N/T. It is still fast and should DESTROY a celica GT!

 

[purdyceligurl]

hahahahahaha you got beat by a GT!!!

 

[scorpion]

Originally posted by purdyceligurl
hahahahahaha you got beat by a GT!!!

Look an open wound, let's pour some salt into it

 

[x99gsxchick1]

Originally posted by purdyceligurl
hahahahahaha you got beat by a GT!!!

hhahah ingrid its me lori...

celica chicks represent

 

[DSMNightmare]

Obviously nushot does not know anything about automatics. Yeah stock your GST auto is going to suck but spend a little money and spool that bad boy off the line by power braking and make sure you have good brakes. To be on the safe side get a tranny cooler. I suggest you go to at.dsm.org and don't listen to stock 5speeds that have only been members for 4 months.

He is right about one thing though. If your not prepared to spend a little money then the automatic is not for you. It's not about auto vs manual, but you against them. Run what you brung and don't listen to the crap about if thier car had the same mods and what not. Fact is talk is cheap and if your prepared to spend a little money you will be quick.

 

[DSMNightmare]

BTW I beat a GT with all stock but intake exhaust and boost controller.

 

[nutshot]

Yeah, I obviously dont understand automatics. Could you teach me? Sounds like you've got plenty of knowledge on slushboxes...

 

[DSMNightmare]

Want to talk about slushbox look at the underhood pics of your car. There is about an inch of slush on your head. What exactly do you think qualifies you as an DSM expert? I really would like to know what qualifies you as a "slushbox" expert. Do you have any installed mods to even call your self a medium novice DSM tuner? just curious because your profile indicates otherwise.

 

[nutshot]

WTF? Nope, not an Automatic expert, I have owned one auto in my life time, for a week. Not a DSM expert. I have done a clutch on my old 4G37 and a waterpump. But, feel free to explain to me how automatics are even remotely comparative to manuals in speed, deceleration and parasitic losses due to indirect drive. In fact, power braking is bad. Don't do it. But I'm no expert, so feel free to prove me wrong.

 

[DSMNightmare]

I have been power braking for over a year with my DSM and it is fine as long as you take care of your tranny and you keep the tranny temps down. If a auto tranny is so bad then why is it that eventually most drag cars will go to a auto tranny or an auto/manual hybrid? If autos are so bad then why does the BMW M3 use an autotranny with paddle shifters. Three of the fastest DSMs are running Auto trannys. 1. Of course Dave Buschur (7.819) 2. Kevin Kwitkowski (10.335) 3. Russ Coxe (10.462). 4. Warren Daniel ran 12.7 with his 2G FWD DSM AUTO and he had very minimal mods to the car. Even Bret Rau is going with an AUTO for his new setup. Fact is that the auto tranny allows you to spool off the line and eliminates the RPM loss between shifts thus maintaining the spool.

My problem is I don't think that you should be going off on the auto tranny just because of what you think or others theories behind what is better. Spouting off rederick only creates a bunch of newbies who go around spreading the "he said she said" BS. I run an auto and I run a pretty quick auto. I should be well in the 12s by the end of the spring(knock wood) and that will be stock from intake manifold all the way to exhuast manifold.

Building a fast car is not simply a matter of Auto vs Manual or FWD vs AWD. While statistically FWD manuals are faster than FWD autos and AWD manuals are faster than AUTO AWDs. None of that crap matters because if it were that simple everyone would have an 11-10 second car. While my ideal DSM is still a manual 90-91 AWD I still like my 2G FWD AUTO and have no problem handing people thier A$$es. I have no problems with horsepower, only with traction.

I have been running my AUTO for over a year with no problems whatsoever. I power brake on every launch and not so much as a slip. My tranny runs great(knock wood) and that is because I take care of it and maintain it. I let it cool down and I change the filter and fluid on regular intervals. I do not consider myself an expert on these trannys but I do know enough about them to take care of them. If I don't know something I go to the times board lookup the guys who do know more and I ask them. I'm just telling this guy that taking advice from you about his auto would be as bad as you taking advice from a novice auto guy about your clutch. BTW kudos to you for changing your clutch. I hear thats not the funnest job in the world.

 

[nutshot]

I drive my car to work. I run to Portland and back. I take corners. I know that an auto causes loss in power, removes the option of properly downshifting through corners and weighs more. Some racers choose auto's because their cars are running in sensitive increments of powerband, and missed shifts could eat a $30,000 motor. BMW does use an auto in their M3. Porsche runs tipronic in the new Carrera4. I agree with these statements. Now read any article from any magazine regarding the performance of the manu/auto vs manual. You powerbrake, and yer car still runs. Congrats. You are the exception, not the rule. Auto's need to drive oil through the tranny to engage gears, when you powerbrake, you are driving a greater pressure of oil through the tranny. This is bad. You have a lot of mods, and I respect that, but auto's are slower than manuals. That is a fact.

 

[goats21]

The first weekend I got my car. I had a GTS mess with me. He reved on me on the highway and etc. Yes my car is an auto too. He punched it and I punched it. He started pulling from me. He gave me the peace sign. Then my car spooled up and I was next to him. He felt stupid I am sure of it. He backed off and flashed me. The next time he pulled me real hard. I was like odd, my friend said the same thing. He said all he had was intake and exhaust. I am sure he was squeezing. Had had to be. Probably just running me to see what I had first. Later down the road again. He pulled me again. He rolled down the window and was giving me crap. You got a turbo and all I got is intake and exhaust. I just owned you. All I was saying was stock. Only if I can find that kid again. *sigh*.

 

[paranoidTSi]

Thats very interesting..I have a eagle talon tsi awd turbo and when I had retarded timing and a bad spark plug I still managed to pull on Celicas. There are only a couple of reasons I could see why that celica pulled:
a) Driver Error, even if it was automatic vs manual your 210HP/205 torque beast should have SLAMMED a 140HP/125 torque fairy. I don't think it would even have required you to shift from 1/L > 2 > D.

b) Car problem, your car must have some serious problem, weither it is the ones you just stated or something else. Does the engine run on all 4 cylinders? If you gave it your all we are talking a 70HP loss. You did regular maintance to your car right?

 

[goats21]

paranoidTSi was that in response to my post? This was from a 70 roll.

 

[paranoidTSi]

Humm correct me if I'm wrong, if the Celica is manual he could have dropped a gear and gunned it giving him a better compression/power ratio, while an automatic you couldn't do that.

 

[goats21]

I am sure that is what he tried the first pull. I hung with him. So that makes me think he was squeezing the 2nd and 3rd pull. But in either case. I still lost stock. I would of beat him from a dig though. 3 weeks later I get upgraded to where I am now. I never did see him again.

 

[KRAZYKOREAN]

NO.

 

[DSMNightmare]

OK, my auto is slower than a manual yes, but not your manual. Run what you brung and don't talk s*&^.