My shepherd tranny is ####ed?

[clipse-T]

Anyways..i was a red light . Light turns green and i take off..i spin whole 1st gear and when i shifted to 2nd..something strange happened. I was in 2nd gear and i tried to shift to 3rd and i couldnt..i couldnt put it in any gear except 2nd. So i am in 2nd gear and i pull over..i couldnt put it in ANY gear..i would let go of the clutch and the car would stay on..i think i was going back and forth on neutral and 2nd..but i couldnt put it in any other gear. I would hear grinds trying to put in gears. So i had to get the car towed..This was a $1900 tranny from john shepherd..Stage 1 rebuild + the LSD. I dunno wtf could be wrong..any ideas?

 

[twicks69]

Shift fork, or hub and slider (shattered and bound up). Bent, damaged, or loose shift cables would DEFINITELY make a difference, and could easily cause you to shift bad, resulting in tranny breakage.

Just because Shep built it, doesn't mean that it is indestructable. It was just a rebuild.

I have broken at least 4 Shep stage 4's, a couple TRE boxes, along with a few other built trannies. I am going on #10 now.

Why don't you CALL shep. He has worked out deals with me before, and it is definitely worth trying that route first. He is reputable, and a respected -- what does your local tranny rebuilder have for a resume?

 

[95blackGsTurbo]

Could bad shifter cables cause this to happened?

Not likely. Usually its misadjusted cables on reinstall that cause a problem.

 

[twicks69]

Im sure its the clutch, what type of clutch are you using?? Dont go with dual disk. Strange you were able to put it in second gear though...

Just so you know, multi-disk clutches are actually BETTER -- they provide a much better amount of disengagement to reduce mis-shifting, along with having a lower MOI (moment of inertia), lighter overall clutch/flywheel assembly weight, and more clamping force through greater surface area while maintaining a lower leverage point.

I have had several clutches in my DSM, and I have had the best luck (shifting, engagement and disengagement, and torque capacity) from my Quartermaster 7.25" V-Drive twin disk. Considering that it also weighs only 12# for the ENTIRE assembly (including pressure plate, 2 floater plates, 2 disks, and 1-piece chromoly flywheel) -- my old ACT 2600 with South Bend Performance Kevlar sprung disk and my Fidanza flywheel weighed in at 18#.

The clutch wasn't the part that failed. Driver and damaged shifter cables are more likely to blame. If he wasn't completely disengaged, or shifting faster than his clutch was disengaging; he could have easily forced it into 2nd gear. Resulting in bending a shift fork, or more likely destroying the shift fork and the 1-2 gear hub and slider assembly.

If clutch disengagement is a problem with your car, you should really have a new slave cylinder installed along with a braided stainless steel clutch line with the pressure reservoir removed. Also, you should keep a good quality brake fluid like Valvoline Synthetic brake fluid; flushing it and bleeding it at least 1-2 times a year.

Good luck with the transmission.

 

[Ultimatedsm]

Well, if your car was perfectly fine before your nice hard launch. You said you spun through 1st and judging by that your clutch wasn't slipping as much because of your tires spinning. If you had a nice clutch smell after, than you could of just roasted your clutch. So because you launched it hard, its most likely your clutch fork. Hearing grinds while trying to put it in other gears indicates your clutch is stuck in the engaged position.

When you press the clutch pedal down that mechanical energy goes to your master which converts it to hydraulic energy than to your slave making it mechanical energy. That Slave rod pushes your clutch fork which has a throw out bearing on it and that touches and pushes the clutch diaphragm. When you press the clutch diaphragm in, it has a pivot and pulls the clutch disc away from the flywheel which is your disengage position.

Having all of that said, if any of those things are faulty, your car won't disgengage. If your clutch disc is new, than it will not be the problem thats for sure. If your clutch fork is bent or even broken, you will not be able to shift into gears because the input shaft is connected to your flywheel which is connected to your crankshaft. So if they are both spinning and you try to shift into gears, your trying to align your syncros with a moving member which can miss and thats when you grind. When you disengage your clutch, you pretty much disengage your input shaft from the engine so it's free wheeling now which makes it easier for the syncros to align with your gears in your tranny. Remember, when you gear that grind, its not two gears clashing, its the syncro trying to align with the gear but can't. The gear will always win over the syncros because it is built from stronger material hence your syncros go much more often than your actual gear sets. So stop trying to shift into gear if you know it won't go in gear right now.

I just gave you a lesson on transmissions. Trying visualizing that and than go conquer your problem and try pin point it that way. I have a feeling its your clutch fork though because you did say hard launch. Trying slipping the clutch first than dumping it which makes it much easier on the drivetrain. Another thing you should is your shifter bushings under your hood. I remember I toasted mine and wouldnt shift in 1st or 2nd gear.

 

[95blackGsTurbo]

Just so you know, multi-disk clutches are actually BETTER -- they provide a much better amount of disengagement to reduce mis-shifting, along with having a lower MOI (moment of inertia), lighter overall clutch/flywheel assembly weight, and more clamping force through greater surface area while maintaining a lower leverage point.

I have had several clutches in my DSM, and I have had the best luck (shifting, engagement and disengagement, and torque capacity) from my Quartermaster 7.25" V-Drive twin disk. Considering that it also weighs only 12# for the ENTIRE assembly (including pressure plate, 2 floater plates, 2 disks, and 1-piece chromoly flywheel) -- my old ACT 2600 with South Bend Performance Kevlar sprung disk and my Fidanza flywheel weighed in at 18#.

The clutch wasn't the part that failed. Driver and damaged shifter cables are more likely to blame. If he wasn't completely disengaged, or shifting faster than his clutch was disengaging; he could have easily forced it into 2nd gear. Resulting in bending a shift fork, or more likely destroying the shift fork and the 1-2 gear hub and slider assembly.

If clutch disengagement is a problem with your car, you should really have a new slave cylinder installed along with a braided stainless steel clutch line with the pressure reservoir removed. Also, you should keep a good quality brake fluid like Valvoline Synthetic brake fluid; flushing it and bleeding it at least 1-2 times a year.

Good luck with the transmission.

He posted that because Mario (mlopez) and his AWD Spyder keeps breaking Shep. transmissions. Don't know what the reason for this is because I have never really seen Mario drive his car but I would recommend using it only for very high hp/tq applications that aren't going to be breaking very often.

 

[twicks69]

Well, if your car was perfectly fine before your nice hard launch. You said you spun through 1st and judging by that your clutch wasn't slipping as much because of your tires spinning. If you had a nice clutch smell after, than you could of just roasted your clutch. So because you launched it hard, its most likely your clutch fork. Hearing grinds while trying to put it in other gears indicates your clutch is stuck in the engaged position.

When you press the clutch pedal down that mechanical energy goes to your master which converts it to hydraulic energy than to your slave making it mechanical energy. That Slave rod pushes your clutch fork which has a throw out bearing on it and that touches and pushes the clutch diaphragm. When you press the clutch diaphragm in, it has a pivot and pulls the clutch disc away from the flywheel which is your disengage position.

Having all of that said, if any of those things are faulty, your car won't disgengage. If your clutch disc is new, than it will not be the problem thats for sure. If your clutch fork is bent or even broken, you will not be able to shift into gears because the input shaft is connected to your flywheel which is connected to your crankshaft. So if they are both spinning and you try to shift into gears, your trying to align your syncros with a moving member which can miss and thats when you grind. When you disengage your clutch, you pretty much disengage your input shaft from the engine so it's free wheeling now which makes it easier for the syncros to align with your gears in your tranny. Remember, when you gear that grind, its not two gears clashing, its the syncro trying to align with the gear but can't. The gear will always win over the syncros because it is built from stronger material hence your syncros go much more often than your actual gear sets. So stop trying to shift into gear if you know it won't go in gear right now.

I just gave you a lesson on transmissions. Trying visualizing that and than go conquer your problem and try pin point it that way. I have a feeling its your clutch fork though because you did say hard launch. Trying slipping the clutch first than dumping it which makes it much easier on the drivetrain. Another thing you should is your shifter bushings under your hood. I remember I toasted mine and wouldnt shift in 1st or 2nd gear.

did you even read the rest of the thread before posting??

The clutch fork isn't the problem - -heck, if you are breaking a clutch fork, you are definitely having other problems, since the clutch fork is cast iron and only pivots on the clutch fork ball, through the mechanical energy transferred from your foot, through the clutch master cylinder to the slave cylinder, pressing on the clutch fork, to pivot the fork and disengage the throwout bearing.

The clutch disengaging isn't the problem. The problem is that the transmission isn't disengaging 2nd gear.

 

[Ultimatedsm]

He said he had a torn shifter cable. Well fix that and see what happens.

 

[Rex2342]

Yes he pulled the tranny out. UPDATE: OK the mechanic took it to a local rebuilder to check the tranny internally. Found out that i had destroyed/broken something in the shift gears, dont know exactly what yet. The local rebuilder told him that something must of caused this to happened. So he double checked everything and said that one of my shifter cables was tored up and one of them was loose. Could bad shifter cables cause this to happened?

It sounds to me like he's talking about the shift fork. Depending on what stage transmission you bought these could have been replaced when Shep rebuilt it. It's not uncommon for them to shatter if they're of higher millage and have been abused. If you got a lower stage transmission from Shep it's probably the original one. The cable probably tore/frayed due to improper adjustment on the installers part. The cable being out of adjustment and damaged could have put to much strain on the fork which caused the failure.This is all just speculation of course but the bottom line is that it's now broken. Do like everyone said and call Shep and tell him what your local mechanic told you and see what he says. Shep is an awesome person to deal with so don't be afraid to call him up and tell him whats going on.