1G My car is RETARDED! Can't Set Base Timing! PLEASE HELP!!!!

[Ryan_Radio]

My car is a 90 Talon TSI.

At the moment, I am unable to set the base timing at 5* BTDC. The closest I can get the timing is about 5* ATDC by turning the CAS until it is unable to turn any further.

Besides the whole system being off by a tooth or two, is there any sensor that could have gone bad that would cause such a problem?

Also, I did replace the CAS with another one, with the exact same results.

My original motor died, and I replaced it with a 91 Turbo Laser motor and use all of my 90 sensors and such. The timing belts/water pump/tensioner were replaced also.

We thought the timing was set up correctly with this picture:

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After further research, we realized that the exhaust cam was off by a tooth clockwise. After we changed it, we still have the same outcome (however I was not in the building when the exhaust gear was moved, but I was told it was done)

Im just baffled. If the cam was moved, I would have thought my timing light would've showed a different degree.

Any thoughts would be appreciated!!!

 

[blcknspo0ln]

I would recommend starting from the beginning. Go back and remove your timing covers and verify that everything is in sync at TDC. In the picture you posted, the timing marks are not even straight across. A little more movement may put them there, but you need to determine that for sure. After you fix or verify that, start with the CAS in the middle and play with the CAS. Are you sure that you are grounding the system before you try to set ignition timing? you should hear the car change exhaust notes when this happens.

 

[1992awdlaser]

Two questions:

Are you grounding the timing when you go to check it?
Did you check to see if the crank pulley is coming apart?

 

[Ryan_Radio]

Both great questions, sorry I didn't post that first.

I did ground the wire and the pulley looked really good, but what is the best way to check to make sure that pulley isn't pulling apart on the car?

 

[1992awdlaser]

There is a picture in this thread where you can see what to look for. He had the same problem as you. http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/bolt-tech/301956-resolved-cant-set-base-timing-using-cas.html

 

[Ryan_Radio]

I have a spare crankshaft pulley I'm going to put on today and see how it goes. That would be great if it's that simple!!

 

[16vtawd]

Do you have a datalogger connected?

 

[Ryan_Radio]

I do not have a data logger connected I have been scowering the web for a used one for a month now to no avail. It would sure help things out alot!

 

[16vtawd]

You won't be able to set base timing with a datalogger connected. Check the Cas because you can install the part that goes in the cam upside down.

 

[Ryan_Radio]

Double and trippled checked that the CAS was installed properly. I even turned it 180* just to see what would happen. I also used a 2nd CAS I had laying around to see if it would work....same results.

Last night I changed my crankshaft pulley to a different one. Same results.

Last night I also purchased a palm and the pocketlogger software!

I keep going back to the timing marks. I just wonder if they are still off.
Lets just say for shits-n-giggles, that the marks are all perfect, and the car should be in perfect time. The CAS is working properly and the crankshaft pulley is also good. WHAT else could cause this problem of not being able to set my base timing to 5* BTDC (again closest I can get is about 5* ATDC)

Bad ECU?
Bad Ground?
Bad Knock Sensor? (I pulled the plug on it once, with no change in the timing)

Any other ideas would be great! Thank you!

 

[90laserRSfwd]

Did you hook a timing light up when the car is running with the timing connector NOT grounded to see if the timing is jumping around? I'm not saying that whoever did your timing job is incompetent but there has to be a tooth off somewhere, the crank pulley has turned inside itself (meaning the damper is shot), I know this may seem really really stupid but did you happen to swap the intake and exhaust cam gears onto the opposite cams?

 

[1992awdlaser]

The cam gears are interchangeable with each other. I'm puting my money on the crank pulley starting to split. Is the one you put on brand new or used?

 

[Ryan_Radio]

It was used also, but I just bought a new one today. I also noticed that the timing belt was loose....VERY loose compared to what I think it should be tightened up to. I'm sending it to a repair shot monday, and they are going to have a good look at it. It should be interesting to see what the outcome is.

I did check the timing with the ground unconnected, and the light did jump back and forth a bit. Not sure what that means though....haven't researched that out yet.

Thank you guys for all of your input thus far!! It has been a real help!

Ryan Radio

 

[kris_stewart10]

off topic but how do i retard the cam timing ???

 

[krummel21]

Did you figure out the answer to this? The closest I can get mine is 10* and I cannot rotate my CAS anymore.

 

[19BLACKGST98]

Mine never lines completely up....limits me to 450 whp and very slow spool.