Most successful built seven bolts?

[UTRacerX9]

I built my 7-bolt and i never had a problem with crankwalk...however i did build it with the MBCAD (main bearing cap alignment dowel) kit from mach v motorsports to help prevent this. We made consistent 550+whp runs on this setup, and is used as my daily driver. I put close to 3,000 hard driven miles on the motor, never without a problem.....then one day my crank dampener decided to separate causing belts to break..eventually catching the timing belt and jump time.....result....pistons whackin the valves and about 4000 grand in damage.......but once again this could have also happen in a 6 bolt.........by the way guys...does anyone make fluid dampeners for our car.......im also rebuilding my 7bolt back to the way it was...check my profile if your interested in my particular mods

Did you use ARP studs with the MBCAD kit, or just put the stock bolts back in?

 

[TS82]

by the way...do they make fluid dampeners for our cars.....

I think that buschur has one for about $325 - $350. I don't remember there being much of a description, so it may or may not be a fluid damper.

 

[Da Dymer]

Did you use ARP studs with the MBCAD kit, or just put the stock bolts back in?

I used ARPs

 

[heavyD]

Hopefully you guys will not have to go through the hardships and expenses that most of us have gone through with 7bolts becuase crankwalk is NOT overrated.

Well I spun a rod bearing on my 7-bolt, are the hardships and expenses more for crankwalk? I know that it does happen but I have never heard or seen anyone in person who had it and my car had no traces of it when it spun the rod bearing. It's like cancer, sure there is a chance I may get it but there is a good chance I won't and I'm not going to sweat bullets everytime I drive my car because some people treat it like some sort of plauge.

 

[95TSiNewbie]

4 weeks ago my car spuna bearing and the cheapest option out there was to buy another 7 bolt. I purchased a RUNNING 7 bolt that had sever crankwalk (bought online ) bad enough that you could grab the crank pully and move the whole crank about a 1/2 inch. Now I come to find out the guy who had the motor had a act 2600 on it and was learing to race with it so that had a big affect on the damage to the crank aswell. My stock motor with 109,xxx had little to no crank play what so ever. I agree that everyone has a slight case of it in one way, shape, or form.... but its not always noticable with out looking really deeply into it. Ill keep buying 7 bolts for my 2g AT FWD because a 6 bolt swap is expensive... and 7 bolts are a dime a dozen for short blocks. One day, i will own a 1g 6 bolt, but college is killing my finances.

 

[MNGSX]

If you want to I say

1. plug the squirters. I personally would install 6 bolt style squirters
2. get the CRCO main cap dowel kit
3. Mod the thrust bearing for oiling

http://www.4secondsflat.com/Thrust_...g_failures.html

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4. Run a lower clamp load clutch like the SBR/Comp Clutch...
5. Measure endplay and use the spec fit oversize bearings

That should do it...

 

[doug]

Ill keep buying 7 bolts for my 2g AT FWD because a 6 bolt swap is expensive.

Don't know if you knew about this, but IPT now has a 6-bolt adapter kit for 2G A/Ts-- scroll down to the "Drivetrain Parts" section.

 

[tsunari]

For those of you that have had crankwalk, or know when it is setting in, as it is starting to walk. How do you know it is walking, as in explanation of how to check if it is crankwalking? Buschur told me what to check for but I would like to hear what everyone checks for? I think to actually be able to tell if a motor is walking without looking in the motor is extremely difficult, so I'd like to hear how you guys know?

My motor just walked a few weeks ago with 180k miles on it . . . one of the symptoms that I had was when making a right-hand turn, depress the clutch and it would 'feel' different than when I would do it in a hard left-hand turn. At the time I didn't think much of it because just a year before I had checked the end-play and all was well.

BTW- I was on stock turbo, ORIGINAL clutch, internals, etc . . . Killed it @ a National Solo2 event I would love to put another 7bolt in, but it seems that no one will touch them and warranty the work for any period of time. So for the 'insurance factor', I'm going 6-bolt . . .

If anyone ever needs a guinea pig to try and figure out the 7bolt problem . . . I'll be one of the 1st in line.

 

[mirkoelek]

how much money you need to swap 6bolt and do it to be able to handle 400+

 

[tsunari]

how much money you need to swap 6bolt and do it to be able to handle 400+

From what I've read, a stock bottom end has been known to handle 400-450 easily. So if you could source a 6-bolt short block complete with everything on the front-end (Oil pump assy, idler pulleys, tensioner arm, etc . . .) Should be fairly cheap.

But if you cant source a block, you'll need to pretty much buy everthing. And if you want to go with forged internals, that's obviously going to run you more. POLK Racing has a stage 2 short block for $1995. It has an Eagle/JE combo, deleted BS, Balanced & Blueprinted, ARP fastners. They seem to be the least expensive around from what I have seen. Head over to Bushur and their stage 2 is 2500 and they're using forged pistons w/ 1g rods and stock fastners.

 

[andymoraitis]

Guys on the DSMlink boards have pushed 36psi and 500whp out of stock bottom end 7bolts. I remember one guy pushing 11.4 on pump gas out of one. If your setup is right, IE not a ### Safc, then the 7bolt can go a good while in the right hands.

I couldn't agree more!

 

[AL92]

I think the bushcur balancer is just that a balancer and hopefully indestructible for the price they charge!! the factory ones seem to be handgranades with the pin pulled..sooner or later they go and somtimes cause a lot of damage.

How about a gp from buschur mabye I would be in for piece of mind if their is balanced unit and can't fall apart.

 

[mean_green_98]

everyones talking about getting crank walk with this clutch, or with this clutch. dose that mean that autos do get it...or is it even less of a chance? just couriose.

 

[doug]

Autos can get it, but it's not nearly as common. Part of the reason is that there's just not as many A/T DSMs, but it's mostly because there's less stress on the crank from not having a clutch.

 

[gixrman]

My motor just walked a few weeks ago with 180k miles on it . . . one of the symptoms that I had was when making a right-hand turn, depress the clutch and it would 'feel' different than when I would do it in a hard left-hand turn. At the time I didn't think much of it because just a year before I had checked the end-play and all was well.

BTW- I was on stock turbo, ORIGINAL clutch, internals, etc . . . Killed it @ a National Solo2 event I would love to put another 7bolt in, but it seems that no one will touch them and warranty the work for any period of time. So for the 'insurance factor', I'm going 6-bolt . . .

If anyone ever needs a guinea pig to try and figure out the 7bolt problem . . . I'll be one of the 1st in line.

Wow I hpoe your not complaining about yout motor letting go at 180k miles. Not like these things are hondas.

 

[dan6bolt2g]

I personally prefer a 7 bolt because its what came in my car. My car has 105k miles or so on it and I put down 350 at the wheels at 15 psi on a green. Now I have a fully built motor and am hoping for some impressive numbers on it. I know I wont be to impressive with a green, well they will be good once I bring my car back to FP to get it tuned again. But I want a fp 3575 or something of that nature to really get the times and numbers I want. All the shops I have been working with told me to swap to a 6 bolt, but I just wont because I, like others on this site, belive that 6 bolts and "crankwalk" is way overrated. I have honestly never heard of more then a hand full of people who really did have crankwalk, and if you think about all the 7 bolts out there, and only really hearing of such low number of people who have had crankwalk, then why bother? Crankwalk can happen in any car at any time, but people throw it out of porportion on dsms. My personal opinion is #### 6 bolts, 7 bolts all the way.

i cant believe i just read that, how can you defend a motor which is KNOWN to FAIL EXTREMELY under stock power, and usually under a 100k miles?? the 7bolt is an embarassment to mitsu and to anyone who owns a 2g DSM. i had a 7 bolt which walked, and even if i was given a free 7 bolt i wouldn't install it cause i dont like replacing my motor when its time to change my timing belt. for the very FEW who have success on 7bolt, someone up there is looking down on you.

and just to let you know, my car which is now powered by a bone stock g-vr4 6bolt motor, went 13.7, compared to my 7bolt which was also stock which went 15.0 the only mod i did when i put the 6 bolt in there was a act2100, the benifits of 6bolts over stock 7bolt motors is just too great.. if u have a stock 7 bolt (stock turbo) and shes walking, dont even think about a rebuild, just go strait to a 6bolt if u plan on going fast, the 14b is huge compared to the t-25, the head and intake manni flow better, it just makes sense.

do the 6bolt swap its the best mod you'll ever do.

 

[Tevenor]

i cant believe i just read that, how can you defend a motor which is KNOWN to FAIL EXTREMELY under stock power, and usually under a 100k miles?? the 7bolt is an embarassment to mitsu and to anyone who owns a 2g DSM. i had a 7 bolt which walked, and even if i was given a free 7 bolt i wouldn't install it cause i dont like replacing my motor when its time to change my timing belt. for the very FEW who have success on 7bolt, someone up there is looking down on you.

and just to let you know, my car which is now powered by a bone stock g-vr4 6bolt motor, went 13.7, compared to my 7bolt which was also stock which went 15.0 the only mod i did when i put the 6 bolt in there was a act2100, the benifits of 6bolts over stock 7bolt motors is just too great.. if u have a stock 7 bolt (stock turbo) and shes walking, dont even think about a rebuild, just go strait to a 6bolt if u plan on going fast, the 14b is huge compared to the t-25, the head and intake manni flow better, it just makes sense.

do the 6bolt swap its the best mod you'll ever do.

It only thunders when it rains, that must mean rain causes thunder eh?

Let's Discuss:

1) Topic: 7-bolts are crap.

I personally know 3 2G dsm's running around street driven daily drivers running anywhere from 11.2 @ 130mph to 11.7 @ 119 mph. These are STOCK 7-bolts. The only thing I would agree with you if you said it was " 7-bolts are more prone to bad tuning". Totally agree there ( higher compression, smaller rods, etc. ). Let's ignore Crankwalk for now since nobody knows 100% what causes it in every case. Other than that, stock 7-bolts are damn good motors compared to the other 4-cyl import engines.

2) Just doing a 6-bolt swap drops 1.5 seconds from the 1/4.

Crap. First of all if you are running 15.0 as a best time on a T25, learn to drive. There is no reason why a stock T25 shouldn't be in the lower 14's if not lower. My fastest stock T25 time with a stock sidemount was 14.1 @ 100 mph. I know a dozen T25 equipped cars running high 13's. Second of all, if you swapped a complete 6-bolt motor including turbo, of course at the same boost level, a 14b will pump more hp from a T25. More airflow = more power. And finally, you never mentioned if you ran both runs on the same boost, same conditions, same track, etc. You definitely have a different clutch which helps short times tremendously.

3) Tuning is ALWAYS key

I don't care if you throw 15k in parts at a car, if the tuner sucks, the car will suck. Same goes for drivers. Tuning is always key. Put any stock DSM ( 6-bolt or 7-bolt ) in the hands of a GOOD tuner, and they will pull more power with less and safer than a bad tuner. To that end, there are almost no absolutes with DSM's. The potential is ALWAYS there. Wether a specific car ever realizes that potential is up to the tuner.

 

[boostedinaz]

i cant believe i just read that, how can you defend a motor which is KNOWN to FAIL EXTREMELY under stock power, and usually under a 100k miles?? the 7bolt is an embarassment to mitsu and to anyone who owns a 2g DSM. i had a 7 bolt which walked, and even if i was given a free 7 bolt i wouldn't install it cause i dont like replacing my motor when its time to change my timing belt. for the very FEW who have success on 7bolt, someone up there is looking down on you.

and just to let you know, my car which is now powered by a bone stock g-vr4 6bolt motor, went 13.7, compared to my 7bolt which was also stock which went 15.0 the only mod i did when i put the 6 bolt in there was a act2100, the benifits of 6bolts over stock 7bolt motors is just too great.. if u have a stock 7 bolt (stock turbo) and shes walking, dont even think about a rebuild, just go strait to a 6bolt if u plan on going fast, the 14b is huge compared to the t-25, the head and intake manni flow better, it just makes sense.

do the 6bolt swap its the best mod you'll ever do.

Were to start.

You realize that any motor can crankwalk even your super duper 6 bolt. The fact that you write off a 7 bolt because a bunch of tools just claim crankwalk shows us your credibility. How many people that you know actually measured the crank end play after there 7 bolt took a shit? Probably none, but since crankwalk is a nice excuse most chalk it up to that.

Your driving had already been talked about so Ill leave that alone, however, your gains are not typical and probably do more to the fact of a larger turbo and a bit more flow in the intake parts. I am also willing to bet that you have modded the 6 bolt and because of you fear of 7 bolts you left yours stock, hence the BIG difference.

Either way you don't have concrete proof of what you speak, just a bunch of here say and guess so please dint spread that. We have enough ignorant people to deal with we don't need people who want to learn to be mislead.

In case you didn't know most EVO's were 7 bolts so those cars must be huge piles of shit.

 

[heavyD]

I actually prefer the 7-bolt engine for a street/track setup. It's smoother (one of the smoothest 4-cylinders I've ever driven) and more responsive than the 6-bolt. It's still alot stronger than 95% of 4-cylinder engines ever made and the crankwalk is kind of a bad rap as alot of these supposedly crankwalked engines were victims of poor tuning with crankwalk as a convenient excuse.

For an all-out drag car I would use a 6-bolt for daily driven, the 7-bolt is better.

 

[2gredspyder]

When it comes to going fast, i think that 7 bolt can be as fast as 6 bolts. Right now im doing 12.9 with a 14b and my 7 bolt thats walking as of right now. I have a 6 bolt waiting to be droped in. While its true that any motor can walk or fail from poor tuning, 7 bolts just fail more often. Both my motors failed from crankwalk, not tuning. Both times the car was stock when the motor started walking. This was on 2 different cars. on both cars i was able to drive 10k+ miles after the first signs of CW. I would he hard headed if i throw another 7 bolt in there. I do understand that a 6 bolt can walk too, but not as likely as a 7 bolt. Oh and on both cars i checked for play. Some say that CW is overrated, wich it might be, maybe i just havent had luck with them. either way i want nothing to do with 7 bolts.

 

[DSMJim]

Why intentially use a motor with smaller journals if you are going through the trouble of rebuilding it?

Crankwalk is not "overrated", about half the 2Gs I have come into the shop have excessive thrust play that is out of the service limit.

Meausre thrust movement with a dial inicator on the crank pulley, a magnetic base can attach to the cars body.

Guys who claim it's overrated are always the 2G guys who don't have the knowledge to put a 6 bolt in their car. So "it's overrated" becomes a defense mechanism. I completley agree, I think that most 2G have end play thats either near the end of spec (which is too large IMO) or out of spec already. Just because the car runs doesn't mean it doens't have crank walk. If mitsu used Honda specs for crank movement every 2G would have crankwalk a long time ago ..

I personally went fast on my 7 bolt (12.1 you see to the left is my 7 bolt time) and recently built and switched to a 6bolt so no times yet, and I had no symptoms of crankwalk at all. My car ran mint. I measured end play and it was to my surprise ok. I now have this block sitting in my garage doing nothing. I'll probablly never sell it either, I'll end up throwing it in the garbage or something stupid like that.

The point is that I always knew I would eventually build a motor and was prepared for the day when my motor either blew up or crankwalked so bad it woulnd't run anymore. Neither really happened but I changed the motor anyway.

 

[OverboostXS]

I don't intend on being rude but we (7bolt guys) have heard enough of people bashing our motors. Yes they have much more chance of crankwalking which is a horrible occurrence. Well lets consider the following thats like a Honda kid saying that its ridiculous to build a DSM because they always break and have problems. But we step up to the challenge and don't back down to the naysayers and we come out on top. Same thing with 6 bolt guys talking down the 7 bolt, leave us alone quick posting the same info we have all heard over and over and get in your garage and worry about your own ride. Trying to point people into your direction regardless of what reason is getting old. Let people learn, let people try. My 7 bolt so far runs flawlessly and i am more then pleased. Good luck 7 bolt builders!

 

[heavyD]

I don't intend on being rude but we (7bolt guys) have heard enough of people bashing our motors. Yes they have much more chance of crankwalking which is a horrible occurrence. Well lets consider the following thats like a Honda kid saying that its ridiculous to build a DSM because they always break and have problems. But we step up to the challenge and don't back down to the naysayers and we come out on top. Same thing with 6 bolt guys talking down the 7 bolt, leave us alone quick posting the same info we have all heard over and over and get in your garage and worry about your own ride. Trying to point people into your direction regardless of what reason is getting old. Let people learn, let people try. My 7 bolt so far runs flawlessly and i am more then pleased. Good luck 7 bolt builders!

I agree. I wish the 6-bolt guys would just quit beating a dead horse.

 

[Red97Eclipseboy]

Man, I remember this thread. I think I made some people mad. LoL! Anyway, sorry to that guy from Brooklyn... I don't know why I was such an ass. I had two seven-bolts and they both walked. My original motor and a seven-bolt I bought but never installed. Funny, though, but my original motor is at 93,000 miles and has had CW symptoms since 49,000 and still ran great! My six-bolt is now done, but not in yet. I can't wait to take a left-hand turn now! LoL!

I still don't think CW is over-rated. When the guys that say that could only be in other people's shoes, they may have a different opinion. Not everyone has the time or money for a new motor, machining, parts, etc... Nor does everyone have the skills or know-how let alone tools to do it themselves. If you haven't had walk, how can you have an opinion like that? That's like telling a person with AIDS that their disease is over-rated. Unless you have/had it, then don't act like you know how it feels. I know AIDS is over-the-top, but it was just an example.

 

[2gredspyder]

I still don't think CW is over-rated. When the guys that say that could only be in other people's shoes, they may have a different opinion. Not everyone has the time or money for a new motor, machining, parts, etc... Nor does everyone have the skills or know-how let alone tools to do it themselves. If you haven't had walk, how can you have an opinion like that? That's like telling a person with AIDS that their disease is over-rated. Unless you have/had it, then don't act like you know how it feels. I know AIDS is over-the-top, but it was just an example.

Well said. people who say that is overrated are the ones who havent lost 2 or even 3, seven bolts due to CW. I bet if we all measure Crank play most of you will be surprise. Just because it doesnt show any signs doesnt mean that its not out of spec.