MACH V tuning and data logging package ?

[e1337]

im looking to get a pocket logger, and a tuning device so i can start tuning throgh my ecu. my question is, does the MACH V package { http://www.machv.com/ectuanddalop.html } work with a sony clie? i already have one so if i didnt have to go out and buy a palm thatd be mint and id be picking up this unit asap. let me know how you guys feel about this package, good, bad, indiffrent.

thanks
Ron

 

[Blk_99gst]

Does a sony clie run the palm OS or winCE? Even if it runs palm it's not guaranteed.

Here's my take. I wouldn't get it. First, 80% of the people on here run a safc and pocketlogger setup. the other 15-20% probably run dsmlink. You will get a lot more support asking questions about safc settings and your pocketlogger logs, then you'll get asking questions about your settings on the ecu+. The ecu+ looks nice, lots of points (50) to tune at (rich/lean), but it's also pretty pricey. Options:
safc+pocketlogger: 200+179=379
safc+LM-1 wideband: 200+400=600
ecu+ (tuning and fuel control): 429
dsmlink: 600 to 700

If you're serious and have the money to spend, I'd recommend dsmlink. I bet if you ask the guys who have safc+pocketloggers if they could do it again, 50+% of them would get the link instead; I know I would. 2g knock would be very nice to see.

If you don't mind being a pioneer and want to take on something new yourself, then try out the ecu+. But don't be one of those guys who posts up "Hey guys I just got the ecu+, how do I use this thing?".

 

[tlcoll1]

im looking to get a pocket logger, and a tuning device so i can start tuning throgh my ecu. my question is, does the MACH V package { http://www.machv.com/ectuanddalop.html } work with a sony clie? i already have one so if i didnt have to go out and buy a palm thatd be mint and id be picking up this unit asap. let me know how you guys feel about this package, good, bad, indiffrent.

Looks like there's a bunch of Clie models, and at least some of them use Palm OS. If so, the ECU+ Palm software should work with it if the Clie has a serial port HotSync'ing capability.

I can send you the Palm software if you want to give it a whirl.

Tom

 

[tlcoll1]

The ecu+ looks nice, lots of points (50) to tune at (rich/lean), but it's also pretty pricey.

Really? Mach V sells the Super AFC for $340, so for $90 more the ECU+ gives you fuel adjustment, timing adjustment, fast data logging (including boost and support for various widebands) and software for both Palm and Windows. It also currently has a few other minor features that the AFC has, and a (free!) list a mile long of features that people want me to put in. Seems like a pretty good deal to me compared to an AFC. And I don't know where you can get a new AFC for anything like $200 - the dealers pay a lot more than that to Apex.

2g knock would be very nice to see.

This is my number one feature request, and high on my to-do list.

Tom

 

[Blk_99gst]

Really? Mach V sells the Super AFC for $340, And I don't know where you can get a new AFC for anything like $200 - the dealers pay a lot more than that to Apex.

I love MachV, but they're prices are always on the very high side; but they do have great customer service. You can get new safc from other vendors for cheaper than $340. Everyone I know of including myself purchased our safc's off ebay. You can get new, used, safcI, safcII. safcI which will still do the job well; one is going for $199 with no bids. And safcII new unit have a buy it now at 268.

This is my number one feature request, and high on my to-do list.

First let me quote yourself:

Unfortunately, the ECU+ can't turn off the CEL checks, since it runs externally to the stock ECU - it doesn't have access to the stock ECU internals.

Good luck trying to come up with a knock algorithm to try and "guess" what the 2g ecu is seeing for knock. Since you say it yourself, you can't see inside the chip, so any knock count number you would produce is not the true knock count the ecu is using. Let's equate it to someone who hooks up their safc to monitor o2 voltage. That's O.K (actually not really), but what's better is to use a pocketlogger to see the ACTUAL o2 voltage the ecu is using for it's calculations.

Which brings up another key point. Since you are "outside" the ecu you are missing some other KEY parameters that the pocketlogger (who reads actual ecu values) can provide, short and long term fuel trims. 2g (and 1g) use these religously to tune for idle. Even if you connect a wideband ($450) to your unit to try and tune idle, you still can't since the ecu uses the trims to cycle normally. The wideband could be reading 14.7 but the trims to provide that 14.7 a/f ratio could be way off.

Don't get me wrong, I applaud you for making something new, and it has many good things like high sample rate and lots of tuning points, but it misses key features like CEL clearing and the fuel trim values. Also more and more people are using the maft+pocketlogger combo for logging and fuel adjustment. (Although I personally don't like the maft tuning capabilites). When it comes down to it, if I'm going to spend more than a few hundred for a safc and a pocketlogger, then I'm going all the way and getting dsm link where you can see ACTUAL ecu knock count. With that value alone, you don't need a wideband or anything.

EDIT: Another cool feature about the pocketlogger is that it can be used on multiple cars. I can't tell you how many free dinners I've gotten from other eclipse friends for logging their cars. And I've cleared CEL's on lots of OBDII cars, bmw's, eclipses, vw's, etc. That's something both dsmlink or the ecu+ can't do (help your other eclipse friends out...)

 

[jake98gst]

I think it's great. It's a SAFC/pocketlogger all in one with the ability to adjust timing. All for less than DSMLink. Hell, the only reason I would get DSMLink is for the ability to adjust timing but now I'm debating since DSMLink + 95 ECU + Laptop = $1000+. I already have a pocketlogger so the fuel trim and CEL clearing I'm not really worried too much about.

Jake

 

[tlcoll1]

Everyone I know of including myself purchased our safc's off ebay. You can get new, used, safcI, safcII. safcI which will still do the job well; one is going for $199 with no bids. And safcII new unit have a buy it now at 268.

Well, I definitely can't compete, price-wise, with used Super AFCs, especially the cheesy first generation models. On the $268 price for the new one, that sure sounds like a bunch of 'em "fell off of a truck!"

Good luck trying to come up with a knock algorithm to try and "guess" what the 2g ecu is seeing for knock. Since you say it yourself, you can't see inside the chip, so any knock count number you would produce is not the true knock count the ecu is using. Let's equate it to someone who hooks up their safc to monitor o2 voltage. That's O.K (actually not really), but what's better is to use a pocketlogger to see the ACTUAL o2 voltage the ecu is using for it's calculations.

I understand your point, but I don't agree with your conclusions. In the ECU+, I'll (soon) be looking at the real knock sensor, just like the stock ECU does. So I won't be guessing at knock, I'll know exactly what it is, and there's a good chance I'll be able to come up with an equivalent to that "knock sum" number inside the stock ECU that's pretty darn close. And since the knock sum is such a low resolution value, I may well be able to better detect the onset of knock than the stock ECU, in which case it'll be easier to tune.

FYI - some other folks have asked me about adding a "knock reduction" feature to the ECU+, where it could manipulate the knock signal to the stock ECU. This would "fool" the stock ECU into thinking it had less knock than the sensor reads, to eliminate the "phantom knock" problem that some 1G owners have.

Which brings up another key point. Since you are "outside" the ecu you are missing some other KEY parameters that the pocketlogger (who reads actual ecu values) can provide, short and long term fuel trims. 2g (and 1g) use these religously to tune for idle. Even if you connect a wideband ($450) to your unit to try and tune idle, you still can't since the ecu uses the trims to cycle normally. The wideband could be reading 14.7 but the trims to provide that 14.7 a/f ratio could be way off.

Again, I think we disagree. It seems to me that religiously tuning for zero fuel trims is missing the big picture. The fuel trims are in the stock ECU for a reason, and they compensate for normal wear and tear on the fuel system. If you picked a random good-running stock DSM out of a parking lot, and checked the fuel trims, you'd probably find them to be non-zero, because maybe the injectors are a little clogged, or weren't perfect from the factory. I believe that if you keep the fuel trims reasonably small then you're probably fine, and the stock ECU will do its job just like it was designed. If your fuel trims are way out of whack, you'll be able to see that (at idle and cruising) with the front O2 pegged in either direction. At that point, you know you have some tuning to do.

I'm exaggerating here, but when you refill the gas tank, do you double-check and re-adjust the fuel trims for zero? A bad batch of gas could well move them from zero, couldn't it?

Also, the wideband isn't really used for setting up idle. You use it in WOT conditions to ensure that you're not running lean, since the car's stock O2 sensor isn't accurate enough to tell you so. Some people like to use EGTs for this purpose, but I think the wideband is a better (though more expensive) solution.

Don't get me wrong, I applaud you for making something new,

No offense taken. I enjoy these types of debates.

and it has many good things like high sample rate and lots of tuning points, but it misses key features like CEL clearing and the fuel trim values.

With the CEL clearing, I guess I tend to wonder if maybe it's not better to attack the source of the CEL than to just turn it off. Seems kind-of hacky to me.

Also more and more people are using the maft+pocketlogger combo for logging and fuel adjustment.

The MAFT functionality is on my radar as well. Hopefully, it'll be free.

When it comes down to it, if I'm going to spend more than a few hundred for a safc and a pocketlogger, then I'm going all the way and getting dsm link where you can see ACTUAL ecu knock count. With that value alone, you don't need a wideband or anything.

Well, two things on this...

1. The DSMlink is $645 for most folks, plus the cost ($150 or so, it says on the DSMlink site) if you don't have a 2G-95 ECU, so there's definitely a non-trivial price difference between the DSMlink and some of the other combinations.

2. You can't really know what your air/fuel ratio is without a wideband. Instead, with the DSMlink, you're just counting on it doing the right thing in using knock to retard timing. These aren't exactly the same thing.

Tom