LS-1 MAF translator vs ARC-2/ VPC

[boost_junky2000]

Anyone have a dyno numbers about this thing. I heard they were not all that great, anybody no for sure.

 

[natedogg]

Originally posted by boost_junky2000
Anyone have a dyno numbers about this thing. I heard they were not all that great, anybody no for sure.

I don't know who you heard that from, but I sure as hell like mine. I think its one of the best purchase I ever made for my car. Tuned in and running perfect. See my previous post. And considering Ramchargers just shipped out 50 more today, it would seem many people disagree with your "not all that great" comment. Some people who have them and are having trouble is because they are not taking the time to tune or even hook up the required RPM wire. How lazy can you get? This is the easiest to tune device I have ever seen for a DSM. Its truly set-it-and-forget-it. It honestly took me all of 30 minutes to get my car tuned in and running perfect on pump gas. Just make sure you use some kind of data logging device or at the very least an EGT. Dyno/wideband tuning (as with any type of fuel control) would be best, but not at all necessary.

 

[Hal]

Originally posted by natedogg
How lazy can you get? This is the easiest to tune device I have ever seen for a DSM. Its truly set-it-and-forget-it. It honestly took me all of 30 minutes to get my car tuned in and running perfect on pump gas.

I'm going to have to agree. Any one who can't make this work is beyond help.

Mine is "zeroed" out, and my trims are within 2% of zero (+ or -) during both idle and cruise with no changes to my DSMLink settings from those used with the 2g MAF.

Hal

 

[boost_junky2000]

I was going to go ahead and try it out for myself. If i can get one they look they are selling pretty fast. still undecided on which maf to get. I plan on running an l2r in the future which has a 3 inch inlet. So the question is to get the 3" and have it all fit right or go for a little bigger maf and then have the a reducer before the turbo.

 

[Ramchargers]

If you are going to run that LR2 turbo get the bigger sensor. When I left today at around 2 we had 2 units to sell after we shipped the backorders. we will have more is a couple days. Martin at AMS will be on the dyno in a couple days he tells me I sent him a unit a while back. I really cant wait for his results myself. I have confidence we will do well.
Hal- send me your shipping info I got something for you.
Mike Licht

 

[Tallen]

Originally posted by boost_junky2000
Anyone have a dyno numbers about this thing. I heard they were not all that great, anybody no for sure.

yea nate..i dont know where he "heard" this from but i have been watching threads on this on every DSM board and no one has any dyno #'s. thanks for making up some info thou. thats all ramchargers needs for their new product.


yea i set up my translator without a logger...just O2, knock light, and boost gauge, and it works great. i will yhave the logger up and running soon.

 

[4wd-Eclipse]

Which draw-thru MAFT set up will be better?

1. 6” K&N - GM 3”- dejon 3” intake CIP-1gG – FP Green turbo.
2. 6” K&N - GM 3.5”- dejon 3” intake CIP-1gG – FP Green turbo.
3. 6” K&N - GM 3.5”- dejon 3.5” intake CIP-1gJ – FP Green turbo.

 

[lxlaw]

i wonder why they havent placed this topic as a hot topic yet, so it is easy to find. Even though it is usually at the top anyway.

 

[JJNovo]

Hi I'm a Newbie DSMtalker, although I've been lurking for a while and reading topics of interest.

I don't have hard numbers for you all, but I've installed the MAFT this past weekend along with some 660s. Went for a drive for about 3/4 of an hour to get the fuel trims registered, tuned a bit and went for a hard highway run. Well basically, found a nice quiet stretch of flat road, launched and ran.

As some others have expressed... Wow! This Talon has not run this hard, ever! I did notice that it liked running on the rich side though, in regards to knock. Note that this was with minimal or initial tuning. Aside from some knock registering from original lifters at lower rpms, it ran just awesome! Finer tuning continues. d

I'd say that it is a Very good idea to set or reset the base idle and timing, you're in there anyway, after reconnecting the battery.

As for sound... Have you ever played or watched PlayStation(2) Grand Turismo? The sound that those turbo cars make, WRXs, Skylines etc? 10 times better! Especially at full pull. [big grin]

Spool-up and acceleration were much improved at higher throttle positions. At lower speeds, where it once took a good hard blip to gain about 10 mph, now takes a nice smooth push on the pedal. With a side benefit of a quiter exhaust note.

At this stage, I'd have to say that the MAFT works as advertised and is a can't go wrong mod. In other words, excellent bang for the buck. Sure you pay the same for the bigger injectors, but you outflow the 2G MAS w/ its supporting plumbing and AFC(II) for what, half or better cost? Anyway...

Sorry for the long post but, "I'm so Excited, I just can't hide it" ... ;-)

Regards,
JjNovo

 

[bottledbird68]

Originally posted by JJNovo
As for sound... Have you ever played or watched PlayStation(2) Grand Turismo? The sound that those turbo cars make, WRXs, Skylines etc? 10 times better! Especially at full pull. [big grin]

Which way did you go, draw through or blow through? Just wondering. I'm planning on ordering in a week or two and I'm trying to decide which way to go. If your going blow through are you venting? Oh, one last question, what turbo do you have? This one goes out to everybody, anybody use one of these with a 14b? Just wondering if the performance improvements are as dramatic with the stock turbo? I mainly want it for fuel tuning. I was talking to a buddy who has a VR4 and he was trying to tell me it wasn't fine enough and I still need an afc? Course here I see that everybody says the translator alone is good enough. Anybody who had an afc go to tuning with just the translator? Just a few questions I've had in the back of mind while reading posts these last few weeks... Either way this thing sounds awesome!! I'll be placing my order soon

 

[marshall]

I just got mine on yesterday. I'm running a 2G MAFT on my 1G because I had a 2G MAF on previously. I'm using a 3" GM MAF in my UICP. The first thing I noticed was how much smoother drivability is now. Then I got out to the highway and did some WOT pulls, it felt great, definite spool improvement. My boost increased 2psi and had to be turned back down.

I added a MAP sensor for my S-AFC at the same time as the MAFT, so I can't comment too much on tuning the MAFT. I left the MAFT at 0 across, I'm just letting the S-AFC handle fuel, maybe in the future I'll use both as the MAFT looked very capable of taking care of things (in other words, you don't need a S-AFC with this).

My quick setup is: 57 trim, Spearco 2-216, sheet metal intake, 2.5" IC piping, 2.5" turbo-back, 680cc, 40psi base..

Marshall

 

[Tallen]

i noticed about all the above as well....faster spol, pulled hard at WOT because fuel can now be tuned, needed to turn boost down because it was 2 psi higher (prolly cause of intake restrictions?). i am still very happy. cant wait till i get a logger!

 

[DCJ98GST]

Hmmm

Marshall and Tallen:

I dont understand why your boost would go up 2 psi? If you are using boost control device like the MBC than it should trigger the WG at the same intake manifold pressure. Unless it is spooling so fast that you have a little spike. But thats not what you guys saw. right? Can you explain?

 

[marshall]

I'm using a bleeder valve for boost control.

 

[JJNovo]

First, sorry for the mis-title. I meant DSMtuner in my intro. Got confused cause I'm reading all of the boards (3) on this topic.

I'm still using the 14b, but with a ported 7cm housing and a custom 2" outlet elbow. I've been opening up as many air paths as I could to get a free flowing system. Then either once the turbo gives up it's ghost or the time (price) is right, I'll be upgrading the turbo. Most likely a B16G. I don't want to go too radical.

I installed a 3" MAF in a draw through config for now. Plug n' Play into the stock intake tube.

I didn't want to install the MAF as blow through, before I catch canned the valve cover breathers. Although I'm not ruling the blow through config out. I just want everything in place to be able to get clean air to the MAF.

As for an AFC, I decided not to get one at this time. But as has been posted earlier in this thread, it is useful for more refined tuning and I may go that route in the future.

Regards,
JjNovo

 

[Boostn4]

Originally posted by marshall
I just got mine on yesterday. I'm running a 2G MAFT on my 1G because I had a 2G MAF on previously. I'm using a 3" GM MAF in my UICP. The first thing I noticed was how much smoother drivability is now. Then I got out to the highway and did some WOT pulls, it felt great, definite spool improvement. My boost increased 2psi and had to be turned back down.

I added a MAP sensor for my S-AFC at the same time as the MAFT, so I can't comment too much on tuning the MAFT. I left the MAFT at 0 across, I'm just letting the S-AFC handle fuel, maybe in the future I'll use both as the MAFT looked very capable of taking care of things (in other words, you don't need a S-AFC with this).

My quick setup is: 57 trim, Spearco 2-216, sheet metal intake, 2.5" IC piping, 2.5" turbo-back, 680cc, 40psi base..

Marshall

Awesome to hear it worked out for you Marshal, this is Andrew from Roanoke. I'm assuming you are venting now, any leaking problems from your 1g BOV? Or have you sealed it? I see also you are still using a 2.5 inch turbo back, any chance of going 3"? I can't wait till the 11th, Natural bridge ought to be fun.

 

[marshall]

Hey Andrew, check your PMs.

 

[timloomis]

hey,
heard a LOT about this maf trans,few questions tho...can i just slap on bigger injectors when i get the turbo on and the maft will take care of it or will i havta get an afc?and i can put it on the tb elbow and run boost through it and itll all be ok?thanx.

 

[nine5raptor]

you just change the BASE knob to the new injector size and you are good to go.

It has base settings up to 1250 cc/min injectors.

and yes, it can be use in blow-through.

 

[timloomis]

sounds preety sweet.its now on my list,.thanx.

 

[timloomis]

sounds preety sweet.its now on my list,.thanx.

 

[Tallen]

took .3 off my 1/4 time with just the translator installed btwn visits to the track! i would have got more runs in (only got 1 good run in!), but my STOCK catback bit the dust from a lil wheelhop! low 14's. yippie!
settings were:
Base-0
Idle -3
Mid -0
WOT-D
running an nice .92 basically all thru the band at 44psi fuel pressure and 16 psi boost.

the Tunerstein also helped with tuning a BUNCH

 

[JayHass]

I just read 26 pages of this thread.

I never paid *that* much attention simply because my ECU was dead when I parked the car last November and planned on going AEM EMS route because of that.

Well looky looky...I put in my new battery (Nice small lawn tractor unit...but I digress) and the car blurped right to life and showed NO signs of what it did when I parked it and slowly got some back. Hmmmm. Turns out my MAF pinched a fatty. (Yea I modified it to run with both honey combs removed with an open air BOV and that pretty much took it's toll. Oh well! )

Couple things I wanted to touch on regarding blow through vs draw through.

First the non tech practical stuff. As I think someone mentioned some of the best BOV's are atmosphere vent only. (Read: TiAl) Also being able to route the compressor inlet pipe anywhere we want makes fabbing a pipe MUCH eaiser and also gives you the option to drop a filter down in the stock IC location (With it removed obviously) for a NICE cold air intake. (Yes I guess you could technicall still do with with a GM MAF is just makes it harder.

Now for the tech info between the two. WARNING: This is going to hurt your head...mine is killing me.

They both measure and work the same wether it's in front of the compressor or after it. The MAF counts the mass of air entering the motor. That mass stays the same all the way through the motor into the combustion chamber. The turbo compresses it, heats it, and the intercooler cools it, but neither the turbo or the intercooler can create air, they only take what is given to them and squish it together and change its temperature. Every bit that they touch is coming in through the MAF which counts it all.

Yes, it's more dense after the turbo, but it has the same mass, it just takes up less volume when it's denser. Density and pressure and different:

Density is the measure of mass per unit volume, or kg / m^3, or lb(mass) /in^3. Examples are a 1 cubic foot bag of feathers is less dense than a one cubic foot bag of lead. Same volume, different masses, so different densities.

Pressure is force divided by area, or lb(force) / in^2 (also known as psi)
or BAR which is Newton (force) / m^2. Examples are the fuel pressure is 45 pounds (force) per square inch, the combustion pressure inside the motor after the spark ignites is about 1500-1800 pounds (force) per square inch.

They are really two totally different measurements of two different things, BUT, they are related by the ideal gas law: PV=nRT

Here, P = pressure, V = volume, n = number of moles (molecules x Avogadro's #), R = a constant, and T = temperature.

For a constant volume, when pressure goes up, temperature goes up too (like how the turbo heats the air).

The way you get the realtion between density and pressure is that density = mass/volume, and mass comes from the variable "n" (number of molecules, that all have mass). Once you have mass and volume (and therefore density) you can use PV=nRT to find pressure "P".

Simple.

In regard to this subject and regarding stepping up the IC piping to match the larger MAF openings, I'm going to post my Garrett engineer friends brain dump on the subject.

Jay, conservation of mass applies. The MAF measures mass flow rate of air directly. It does not calculate mass flow rate based on a temperature, pressure, and engine speed measurement (ie, speed-density method). The hotwire MAF measure mass flow directly under a large variety of ambient conditions. The bridge in the system is self-compensating for temperature.

I quote from Heinz Heisler's "Advanced Engine Technology": "The hotwire mass flow meter ... is independant of air denstiy changes, does not suffer pulsation error, and measures the air mass flow directly with the minimum of response time.... Correction for changes in ambient air temperature are made by inserting a temperature compensation resistor in one arm of the Wheatstone bridge and positioning it so that it projects into the incoming air stream via the measuring venturi....

Air temperature vaiations change the resistance of both the temperature
compensation resistor and the hot-wire at the same time, this therefore
compensates for air density changes".

In this way, the MAF can very accurately measure mass flow rate of air
coming into the compressor or leaving it. And, since mass in conserved, and the turbo system is closed (assuming you recirculate your BOV), the mass flow rate of air measured at the MAF is the same as the mass flow rate that goes into the engine.

And regarding the step up in diameter size:

...if you need to go from a 2" pipe to a 2.5" pipe, for example, you should use a 7 degree tapered diffuser to join the two pipes. A good tapered diffuser (don't go more than 7 degrees, or you will get separation) will have a very low loss coefficient.



Rob is just too damned smart on this subject...nothing like talking with Garrett's smartest of their smart. :laugh:

My order for a MAFT is on it's way. Thank you God!

 

[nine5raptor]

interesting, I was wondering about the 3 resistors in there. The wheatstone bridge for temp correction makes sense.

so much to learn, so much to learn...

 

[xinfiniter]

Ok, I know lots of people have this unit now.....because it took me forever to finally get mine Anywho I was just wondering what everyones setup is blow through or draw through??