Lowering Springs, and Coilovers. Whats the Diff?

[Eclipsing]

Whats the difference between lowering springs and coilovers. Which ones am I better off buying?

 

[leet]

Well, do you just want to look 'good', or do you actually want to turn?

 

[Eclipsing]

Both. "A little from column A, a little from column B." Grandpa Simpson.

 

[UCSLugRacerX]

Lowering springs are for merely "lowering" your car. Ussually aesthetics only. "Lowering springs" is a ricer term. I'm sorry if I offend.

Coilovers is a term that is applied to performance suspension shock/spring dampening systems, which Koni, JIC, Bilstien, Tein, etc...etc..., all manufacture.
"Lowering springs" and "coilovers" are often used interchangeably, which is incorrect, and misleads people.

There are no performance lowering springs, but there are performance coilovers.

 

[jtmcinder]

There are no performance lowering springs, but there are performance coilovers.

You forgot to include "that I know of" before the comma. That way I could suggest that you get out more, instead of something more directly insulting.

H&R makes very good springs for 2Gs that are, inter alia, shorted than stock.
If given the choice between stock and ProKits, I'd take the latter.

There are probably twice as many crappy coilover kits on the market than there are crappy lowering springs.

With that said, I do prefer higher rates than either of springs listed above, as well as slightly different amounts of lowering.

- Jtoby

 

[leakyfaucet]

There are no performance lowering springs, but there are performance coilovers.

Okay... you're just plain wrong. How is a lowering spring with a much higher spring rate not a "performance" spring? I guess you should tell Steeda (famous mustang tuners) that their 1.25" lowering spring they use on their track cars in professional races isn't helping their performance.

 

[UCSLugRacerX]

Yes, I made a blanket statement. Any blanket statement has its inherent problems. If “lowering springs” were performance oriented, then why not just call it a coilover? I understand that lowering springs also lower CG of sprung mass, which is beneficial in terms of cornering power. (As it alters roll center, etc…)
I agree with your replies. I think it is a matter of clarity of definitions than anything else.
In regards to definitions, shock and spring assemblies on race cars (i.e., Formula, LM, as well as SCCA reg club race cars) they are often referred to as coilovers or dampeners.
In terms of the automotive consumer enthusiast market, the “Lowering Spring” products’ main objective is to appeal to the aesthetics of ride height, and not necessarily performance. Yes there are low quality coilover products, but most $80 ebay lowering springs are equally if not usually more inferior. Granted this is a blanket statement, and should be not held as complete truth--nonetheless there is more evidence indicating this is correct than incorrect.




-------
There should be a thread listing definitions of coilover, strut, shock, dampener, lowering spring, etc...

 

[UCSLugRacerX]

Leakyfacet wrote:
"How is a lowering spring with a much higher spring rate not a "performance" spring?"

If the lowering spring leaves a considerable gap when the shock is fully extended after rebound, such as a 2" drop on stock shocks, it doesn't matter what the spring rate is, because it will cause the car to pogo. The springs' spring rates should be matched to the shocks' characteristics.
Also, crappy ebay adjustable lowering springs with collars that rattle around, or even springs themselves which unsettle themselves under rebound is dertimental towards the cars' handling. (In my ricer days, I've messed with cheap lowering springs, and have friends who have them on their Honda's too.)

Also the fact that a lowering spring has a higher spring rate, is not indicative of its' superiority over the stock spring rate. For example, if you take a RWD car that oversteers horribly on and off the throttle, and then increase the rear spring rate and decrease suspension travel, the car will oversteer even more, and handle even worse.
Every application varies with each car.

 

[jtmcinder]

In general, the term "coilover" simply means that the spring is coaxial with the shock. In the tuner world (in which we live), when someone says "coilover" they mean a kit that replaces the stock springs and perch with a new spring and an adjustable perch. So when someone on this list asks what's the difference between lowering springs and coilovers, the answer should be something like this:

A lowering spring uses the stock perch and hat, and lowers the car by being shorter (and usually stiffer) than the stock spring.

A coilover [kit] not only replaces the spring, but also replaces the perch (with one that is adjustable) and the hat (with one that is flat, since the springs in coilover kits have flat ends).

The advantage of the former (other than cost) is that they are harder to screw up because they are not adjustable. You get the set-up that the designers have opted for with no options. To the extent that the designers had your application in mind and know what they're doing, lowering springs can provide good bang for the buck.

The advantage of coilovers are two-fold: you can adjust the ride height (independently in the front and rear, as well as side-to-side and corner-to-corner, which is good for 2Gs that are down in the front left corner) and you can get almost any spring rate that you wish, as long as the company allows this. So if your application doesn't match what the designers of lowering springs had in mind - or if you know more about the car than they do - you can get better performance from a coilover.

To be perfectly blunt, more than half of the people reading this post would be better off with H&R springs and Koni Sports than any adjustable coilover system. Heck, many people should just get Illuminas and ProKits and call it day. Just like a EMS standalone is not for me.

- Jtoby

 

[Eclipsing]

Damn, you guys know a lot about suspension. So basically what I want is, something that will lower my car, but I can adjust incase I need to, and something that wont give me a rough ride. Whats best? Whats a good brand, and how much am I looking to spend?

 

[wret]

Damn, you guys know a lot about suspension. So basically what I want is, something that will lower my car, but I can adjust incase I need to, and something that wont give me a rough ride. Whats best? Whats a good brand, and how much am I looking to spend?

You have contradictory goals. "Lowering springs" or performance springs that are lower, if you prefer, should always be stiffer than stock, therefore not so comfortable riding.

 

[Eclipsing]

Heinous

 

[UCSLugRacerX]

jtmcinder, for the most part, I think we're on the same page. It's this stupid English language, and definitions, and descriptions that we get hung up on.

 

[jtmcinder]

jtmcinder, for the most part, I think we're on the same page.

I've gotten that impression, too, from your posts and the few times that we have tangled. But you sometimes make very strong statements that - when taken literally, at least - I strongly disagree with. If this is just a language issue, then maybe one last proof-read before clicking would be good. Alternatively, just don't be offended when I post things like the above so that people get the information in multiple ways.

On the flip side, maybe I need to remind myself (again) how one of the best drivers of DSMs - viz. Fedja from New England - can hardly express himself in English. Doesn't make him any slower.

With regard to Eclipsing's question ... we've been through this a bunch of times, but the first thing you have to do is honest about what you want and how much you are willing to spend. If you say that you want the car to handle "as if it's on rails" while riding "like a Caddy" and cost, e.g., about $500, then I'm not going to reply again because that's just silly. Do a couple of searches and come back with a real question and a bunch of people will help you.

- Jtoby

 

[UCSLugRacerX]

I don’t consider myself heavily lacking understanding in the English language, nor do I see many grammatical errors in my posts. Furthermore, I’m still perplexed as to what you proved invalid in my replies.
What I meant by the language and definitions statement, was that our CONCEPTS were pretty much the same, but rather applied and explained it differently.
You said: “more than half of the people reading this post would be better off with H&R springs and Koni Sports than any adjustable coilover system.”
This perhaps is true, until they really want to tune their suspension on a twisty road course.