Intercooler Thread

[Slipstream]

slipstream
I'm not sure what a pocket thermometer is going to do for testing wot pulls... maybe I missed something. I guess the hardcore DIY guy could simply take it aparart and extend the wires from the probe to reach the cockpit or something.

I suppose you could, my thought was using the peak hold feature of it, do the pull, pop the hood, check it. Most extended probe thermometers use 12" or shorter leads (though longer can be found if you hunt enough) and run upwards of about $140. this was just a cheap alternative.

 

[sweet97]

Gene I am finding all of this interesting and amusing with a dash of bitterness thrown in because I went with a 15.5" x 7" x 3" Bar & Plate FMIC from Dejon to cool the charge from a 50 trim. This post has gone from what works to how it works. Inquiring minds will want to know how and I just want to know what. That makes me lazier than you!
Now I am forced to either spend money on something I already bought or get industrious and learn some over the next 6 months and muster motivation and apply some of what I learn to make the street FMIC work!
Now I have to make another decision and go vote!
Tips besides those of Gene's for making this FMIC I have work are welcome & I don't need to know why. Mark

 

[boost05]

look at my sig custom fmic made by www.extremeintercooler.com

 

[sweet97]

What's so difficult to follow the rules.
1. NO "USE THE SEARCH" REPLIES.
2. NO INSULTS.....DON'T BE A SMART ASS.
3. NO GUESSES.
4. NO GETTING OFF TOPIC-TAKE IT TO PM'S.

I'm here to gather serious information to resolve an issue with my FMIC. Ask a question with sincerity and humility and you will most likely get an answer that does not upset you and it will probably be helpful.
Character is something to HAVE, not to BE. Grow up and help pianoman and those others serious and interested in furthering their performance. Thanks, Mark

 

[98spydert]

No response to either of you. Happy bitching and keep to yourselves please.
edit I even took out all my posts for you too. have fun

 

[telly699]

The vertical bar and plate design is supposedly superior, so why does no one ( or few ) use or make them? All my data and research supports that they are better, but a part of the puzzle is missing... It doesn’t make sense.

Can someone shine a light on the issue? Why is no one running a large vertical bar and plate intercooler as recommended by "pboglio", and more importantly by Corky Bell. Some dividing baffles in the end tanks to spread out the charge over the full length and balance out the efficiency even better?

I am still not 100% on what happens to core efficiency in a vertical as opposed to horizontal design... but we KNOW that pressure loss is always better with the vertical design. And can be maximized using end tanks baffles...

Why do very few manufacturers utilize this design? Are we all as consumers simply ignorant, and we just all buy what is stuffed under our fuzzy little noses? Am I just ignorant?

-Jerad

 

[bastarddsm]

it's very simple. they flow better becuase they have a larger area to flow through, and path that the air flows through isn't as long, hence the decreased pressure drop. but they do not cool as well becuase of the short path the the air has.

 

[GPTourer]

I'm still on the stock sidemount. All I'm looking for when I upgrade is to be able to run 19-20psi on 93 without knock - I'm not expecting a huge gain in power. I also have a Autometero 2 stage intake guage. It has two temp probes and a control box in my center console that has peak hold. All I have to do is press a button to switch between probes that I have installed in my IC pipes before and after the intercooler. The guage was like, almost 3 bills I think.

I noticed we haven't talked much about liquid to air IC's yet. Not many people have experience with them I'm sure, but I figured they were only for drag use too - but why? Do they only work well for a couple of passes? Do they just cost too much for a typical user? Do they weigh more then air to air ones? FWIW, one of the most powerful cars you can buy, the Mercedes CL65 AMG uses a huge air to water IC and it produces 604hp and 738 lb/ft of torque out of a 6.0L twin turbo V12.

 

[mavisky]

the largest problem with a liquid to air ic is keeping the liuquid cold. lots of people use it in drag racing since they can go back to the pits, drain the water, and refill i with fresh ice water. on the street about the only option would be some sort of electric water pump that would pump the water through the air-water intercooler and out to a remote cooler similar to the the oil cooler of the 1990 turbo's. so now you've got yourself an air-water cooler attached to a water-air cooler. seems to me that a simple air-air cooler would've gotten the job done cheaper and easier.

 

[eclipsegsx9797]

with fmics there are a few things to look for once you find the company you like buy it. most shop's such as agp, sbr, vp, ams, and buschur make stuff so it works there not going to put something out there that doesnt work. when looking for whats best in a fmic, look for a core in a good size ( i believe the sperico 2-216 core is perfect for just about anyone). with some nice designed endtanks and short route piping with these 3 things you cant go wrong. i went with the agp kit and love it. cool's the intake temp really nice, i could pull a log up for you guys of me running at 26psi. here are some pics also.

 

[eclipsegsx9797]

agp fmic

 

[eclipsegsx9797]

here is a link for more pics http://www.dsmtuners.com/gallery/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=23253

 

[pboglio]

telly69,

Not all the flow is spread evenly like you said, the far end part of the core doesn't have as much air flowing thru the tubes as the beginning part, thus the cooling is minimal at the ends. This basically makes the intercooler slightly smaller in effect than the same sized side-side core which has better flow into ALL of the tubes. The vertical cores have maybe half the pressure drop, but they can't fully utilize as much square inch of core for cooling. End tank design, internal baffles, and internal fin design and type all play a part here as you previously mentioned.

Vertical cores can pack in the really dense internal fins with big flow distrupting high heat exchanging louvers and still have lower pressure drop. Side-side cores longer than 20" need/should be running wider spaced plain fins with no louvers that are less efficient at heat exchange but lower pressure drop. Comes out to a wash between the 2 efficiency wise with lower pressure drop going to the vertical running cores.

My guess from what I've just observed is that vertical cores with their end tanks take up a HELL of a lot of real estate in the vertical direction and block the radiator quite a bit. Nothing like taking out a low hanging endtank on a drive way. I also believe few people use them because the vertical tubes look ugly as sin, might be as simple as that.

 

[pneumo]

The vertical bar and plate design is supposedly superior, so why does no one ( or few ) use or make them? All my data and research supports that they are better, but a part of the puzzle is missing... It doesn’t make sense.

Can someone shine a light on the issue? Why is no one running a large vertical bar and plate intercooler as recommended by "pboglio", and more importantly by Corky Bell. Some dividing baffles in the end tanks to spread out the charge over the full length and balance out the efficiency even better?

Like someone said earlier, we're not racing intercoolers, we're racing a whole car. The reason the top-to-bottom flow IC is less common on DSM's is because they don't work as well with the rest of the car. With a top to bottom flow IC the endtanks are on the top and bottom where they block more of the airflow to the radiator, leading to overheating problems. The endtanks tend to be larger also, blocking more flow and reducing the maximum size of the core that can be used. One way around that problem is to use a smaller core, like the small Dejon FMIC, or the Griffin core sold by RRE. Of course a smaller core has less cooling ability.

Ways to maximize your IC ability is to use ducting around the bumper to help push all the available air through the core, install a switch for the radiator fans so you can turn them on when the car is stopped or moving at slow speeds, make sure the turbo inlet air temps are as close to ambient temp as possible, install an IC sprayer. IC pipes can be improved by routing the IC pipes to reduce their length, don't use tight radius bends, use as few joints as possible, use beads that don't interfere with the smoothness of the internal pipe, don't use hump hose, and eliminate any neck-downs.

 

[sweet97]

I use that street FMIC by Dejon. It could be larger if they had "wings" that angled back but made it wider. Just dreaming there! I am going to try and make it work because I have all winter to do it. I need smaller injectors because duty cycle has an effect on timing which I was not aware of. Having ambient air availablle for the turbo intake is another idea I plan to employ.
The sprayer is a possibility but i know very little of them so far.
Personally the verticle tubes are tough looking, kindalike an Autocar rig has for it's radiator front.
Oh, mine is not a top to bottom flow but rather bottom to top. Mark

 

[LandoAWD]

Thats a lie, you sent me an unsolicited PM. To save you from utter embarrassment I will just say this, you confirmed what I suspected about your intelligence and maturity level. Your attempt at insulting me actually made me crack up. Your too STUPID to come up with a good insult. If you keep e-mailing me looking for a fight I'm not going to hold back like I did in my response to you. Follow your own advice and keep to YOURSELF. Sorry to everyone else.

Keep this crap out of the public forums. If you want to go back and forth, take it back to PMs.

DO NOT post an attack against a member, regardless of what PM you got from them, in open forum.

 

[sweet97]

Kris this post had started to get ugly a couple of days ago. The members that have followed along can attest to that. There are 4 basic rules to respond to a post and they are regularly broken all across tuners. Random enforcement is not an acceptable fix.
This site, is it a club? I always figured a club was a place where folks with a common interest can go to share information. In this case the preservation, restoration, modification and enhancement of the driving pleasure of the DSM's, TEL.Mark

 

[LandoAWD]

KRandom enforcement is not an acceptable fix.

The enforcement is only as random as the post reports, and shit we stumble across. If you have an issue with moderation tactics, please take it up with the mods, Chris, or make a post in Site Feedback.

Most of us work full-time AND do this.

 

[pianoman]

Please guys don't get this thread locked. I started it so me and people like me could extend their personal knowldge of IC's with what works and what doesn't and why. Thanks for eveybody thats contributed, its been very informative so far.

Pianoman.

 

[PieTSI]

There is some very interesting info about intercoolers here:

http://www.are.com.au/techtalk/intecoolersMR.htm#Bar and Plate or Tube and Fin?

 

[sweet97]

WOW!! Great find PieTsi. That should answer the what's and the why's! Mark

 

[pianoman]

Heres a good link I found!!


http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/turbo/intercooler.html

 

[95gstnj]

does anyone have any experience putting short route piping on a 2g? through the radiator support like all the 1g kits. my specific question is: would the slowboy 1g race kit( the one with the endtanks narrowing toward the bottom) fit on a 2g? has anyone out there done this? thanks

 

[IMMORTALSPYDER]

does anyone have any experience putting short route piping on a 2g? through the radiator support like all the 1g kits.

The ADFX kit goes throught the radiator support.

 

[green92gsx]

I haven't had a chance to run a nice bar and plate core yet. So far my best is 117.50 mph with a modified starion fmic. Am I doing something wrong?