I Can't Grab a Gear! (Automatic Transmission)

[andrewmitch]

undefined* Car Info: This is a 1996 Talon Turbo/AWD w/ Automatic Electronic 4 Speed and 91k miles.....it has been driven modestly until this summer; last 3 months I have put about 3-4k a month on it and have driven it hard (70 mile commute one way every day all summer and trying to make it in an hour will do that).

* Problem: Can not find a gear, not even reverse. It is like it is stuck in neutral. I was driving home from work and I opened it up and it slipped but then it was OK. It slipped a little bit here and there on the way home. After the 60 mile trip, I stopped for gas and when I went to leave, it wouldn't go. I forced it for about a mile and thought I could get it to my service station but that was the end of the ride (had it flatbeded from there).

* Additional Info: The night before, I couldn't start the car and my alarms were going crazy. After playing around with the car and the 3 alarms I got it to start. I had it checked out at Pep Boys (only guys open late) and they replaced the battery (I also put Chevron fuel injector cleaner in it that night as well).....I had the transmission serviced in June; it was lacking power (not down shifting when accelerating for the extra thrust) prior to the service (fluid change) but after the service it was running like a young stallion. I also put 89 octane in the tank about 2 weeks ago, on about half a tank. It was the only time I ever did that. (I used 94 until the feds put an end to that and then 93 with the one recent exception - $3.75 gas will make you do stupid stuff I guess).

* Current Status: It is in the shop and my mechanic has spent the last 2 days trying to determine what is wrong. After the first day he thought it was electrical. After the second day he said he really doesn't have a clue as to what it could be. He said all the tests he conducted come back negative (all the parts he checked are operational and do not report any malfunctions). I am very concerned that I would need a new transmission; money is tight these days and I am not sure it would even be worth putting into an older car (ie $3K transmission for a $6K blue book value???).

* Question: Has anyone experienced anything like this or have any suggestions as to what I can tell the mechanic to check or look for?

Thanks!

 

[doug]

Did your mechanic actually open up the tranny and look inside? I don't want to scare you, but when my tranny went, it acted like what you described, but over a longer period of time. Mine was completely fried.

 

[GILZTSIAWD]

Mine did exactly that when my torque converter went out.

 

[igopoopy]

i am parting out my car let me know if you need parts
i have a 96 tsi awd auto

 

[andrewmitch]

Thanks, guys. I will ask my mechanic this morning. He thought it was an electical problem. Not sure if it is worth fixing the transmission or not. About what would that run me for parts and labor, if I had to replace the entire trannie? I am starting to think it would be cheaper to drop an entire new drivetrain in it!

 

[GILZTSIAWD]

It cost me about $1k at a local tranny shop, that didn't include end clutches and stuff like that that I had put in. If you know somebody though you should be able to save some money, I think the rebuild kit was like 250, the rest was freakin labor. Also, that was just to rebuild it, not install it or anything like that. I think I got raped though.

 

[doug]

To replace my entire tranny, including a shift kit, new end clutch, and a Phantom Grip-type LSD insert was $2500.

 

[andrewmitch]

I appreciate all this info! I was told I need a new trannie and it would be $2500. Given all the problems I have been having and given it is 9.5 years old w/ 91k I can not justify that cost. I have decided buy a new car (truck actually). However, it would be great if I could keep the talon as my second car. I talked to the guy who I use to do my tannie fluid changes and he told me that he could do it for about $1500 if I wasn't in a rush (ie he would work on it when they weren't busy I guess).

I need new tires and a tire rod and idler arm. We are talking about $3K to get this thing up and running. Since I can't buy a second hand car that drives the way the talon does and that gives me all season capability, $3k is not a lot of money. And I will probably let it sit until next summer before the invesment. However, during the past 2 years I have spent $4k already on the car and I am very afraid that this is going to become a money pit. I mean, I am glad to spend $3k if that means the next 30k miles are trouble free but I am very concerned that it won't be. (The salvage value on the car is only $1K. I mean, if I could have gotten $4K for it I would be happy to walk away but $1K is like a slap in the face).

The other thing is that I had my trannie filter and fluid changed in early May by Mechanic #1. He put the wrong fluid in and messed it up. I had to have mechanic #2 correct it in late June. I was thinking that maybe one of these mechanics is responsible for the this issue.

Any suggestions would be very much appreciated!

 

[GILZTSIAWD]

Want to sell it? Just find a good used tranny and get it rebuilt if yours is beyond repair, but it shouldn't be.

 

[andrewmitch]

I would sell it but for $4k - as is and I don't think I will have any takers.

The hope is $1500 to rebuild it and it would be as good as new but I don't have any faith in the car as a whole anymore. On the other hand a replacement second hand car is over $15k....and that's above and beyond the $30k for a new one.....

 

[andrewmitch]

PS - it has not be taken apart as of yet

 

[doug]

What ATF did mechanic #1 use, and what did mechanic #2 use?

 

[GILZTSIAWD]

I would sell it but for $4k - as is and I don't think I will have any takers.

The hope is $1500 to rebuild it and it would be as good as new but I don't have any faith in the car as a whole anymore. On the other hand a replacement second hand car is over $15k....and that's above and beyond the $30k for a new one.....

If you did I would be highly surprised. Stock autos bring nothing, I paid $2700 for mine in perfect condition with 63k miles.

 

[andrewmitch]

What ATF did mechanic #1 use, and what did mechanic #2 use?

I don't know - I can go back and check my records. I do know that mechanic #1 used the wrong fluid but mechanic #2 corrected it and it ran great. The reason I took it to #2 was it wasn't downshifting into "passing gear" (ie no thrust when accelerating).

 

[92awdgsx]

I had the same problems you have, going into neutral went i come to a stop. It was only low fluid level. There are several different things that could actually do that though. Yes using the wrong fluid will take out the tranny.

 

[andrewmitch]

You guys have been very helpful, thank you.

It sounds like you are recommending that I at least have the transmission mechanic I use open it up and take a look at it (the mechanic who did the diagnosis does not do hard core trannie work).

What do you all think?

 

[andrewmitch]

By the way, I believe the root cause of the problem was over heating. Given that, and given the problem I have, anyone have a guess as to what the fix is? I mean, is it just a fluid thing, a few parts, or a total rebuild???

 

[doug]

As in the transmission overheating? That's easy-- an aftermarket tranny cooler (and synthetic ATF). This is something that should be on every A/T's mod list anyway. Very important; get one now.

 

[andrewmitch]

Thanks, Doug. That seems to be the consensus here. But what damage could have been done to the trannie if it does over-heat?

 

[doug]

Not sure exactly-- I'm not an expert on transmission internals. But for starters, the clutch packs, which are the guts of the tranny, are pretty vulnerable from what I know. If those are fried, you're probably looking at a major rebuild.

 

[andrewmitch]

If I decide to save the car, I will try and work something out with the mechanic to try and keep the total costs to $1750.

 

[andrewmitch]

Can the wrong ATF fluid really destroy the A/T?

I just paid 2300 for the rebuild and got it back today. It is slipping all over the place! I was stupid enough to bring it back to the guy who put in the wrong ATF - I know I was stupid! But now I want my money back especially if the wrong ATF fluid was the root cause of these problems to begin with.