How much more POWER??

[weaver]

I just got an evoIII16g turbo and GT manifold to replace my stock turbo. The tech that put it in didn't use a boost controller b/c he said the car is keeping it a 10lbs of boost wich is what it should be. I have read all over the forums that with that turbo and a basically stock setup I should be fine to run 15lbs. How much of a difference would I be able to feel upping my boost to 15lbs. because at 10lbs there is only a slight improvement from stock.
Thanks

 

[kwaliph]

It goes from taking a beating from b16 civic hatches to smashing S2Ks with intake, headers, exhaust .

Night and day my friend, night and day.

 

[DGajre777]

I just got an evoIII16g turbo and GT manifold to replace my stock turbo. The tech that put it in didn't use a boost controller b/c he said the car is keeping it a 10lbs of boost wich is what it should be. I have read all over the forums that with that turbo and a basically stock setup I should be fine to run 15lbs. How much of a difference would I be able to feel upping my boost to 15lbs. because at 10lbs there is only a slight improvement from stock.
Thanks

You can't just put on a bigger turbo and exhaust manifold and bump up the boost to 15psi without additional fuel and anything to control it. Start with the mods listed in the tuning guide. http://www.dsmtuners.com/tuning-guide/2gturbo/

Until you get other mods, keep the boost on the Evo III turbo to 10lbs. You can run 14-15psi on your stock T25 with a boost controller on stock fuel pump/injectors, but not on the Evo III since it flows more air.

 

[weaver]

I had every intention of doing the support mods first, but my T25 started blowing oil and I had no choice other than to replace it. I don't want to buy a smaller turbo and then have to upgrade later, so I pretty much have to do it backwards. I've read on other posts that people are running the evo316g 15psi with no fuel mods. Can anybody that does this confirm?

 

[ericbev]

You can run more than 10psi. Infact, many reputable people will tell you that 14-15psi is the max psi you should/can run without asking for trouble. This is on a bone stock fuel system, not even a pump rewire. Andymoraitis reported 17psi with 0 knock on stock injectors and a 190lph pump.

My advice would be to play it safe and dont mess around that threshold too much. There is no reason to melt a hole in your piston trying to find out how far you can go. Try and get yourself some fuel uprgrades soon so you can really unlock the potential of your new turbo.

I hope that helps.

 

[Slippi84]

Yeah I don't know what that guy is talkin about 15psi on a 16g will be ok as long as everything else on your car is workin properly. I wouldn't go over 15psi though. your very next mod should be a pump thought atleast just for security and of course intake and exhaust. Other than that try and stay around the upgrade steps to prevent from having a setup you can't push hard that's why they say supporting mods first cause they know almost no one likes to buy power adders then not use em.

 

[kevint427]

If 14.3 psi is stock boost for that car why can he not run 14-15 safely off of stock fuel neccessities? I see it possible to run just as much stock as you can with a upgraded mani. and turbo. Sure they both might be a little bigger but they will still be limited by a stock boost controller, yea? Am I missing something here? Even then, a fuel pump, injectors, and boost controller will be needed eventually anyway.

 

[ericbev]

Because a turbochargers massflow will not be equal to anothers at identical pressures because of differences in compressor/turbine wheel/housing efficiency.

A 16G can make 330whp at 24psi while a GT35R can make 500whp at the same psi. There is a difference.

 

[weaver]

Thanks alot for the help. I've got an intake and 1g bov on it as well, other than a few gauges, new turbo and mani, and a turbo timer it's pretty much stock. I have an A/F ratio gauge, can I use it to find the appropriate boost without going lean? Right now it is running as rich as the guage will get under WOT.

 

[andymoraitis]

Your safest bet is to hook up a logger and see if the motor is pulling timing. The stock ECU will hold timing at 7 counts of knock and pull one degree for every additional three counts of knock. Based on the fact that you're on a stock fuel setup, your A/F is at a very rich 9.5:1 with 16 degrees of timing on the highest airflow map (above 2.1g/rev). I wouldn't advise going above 14-15psi on a stock pump and injectors and no more than 17psi with a 190 pump and stock injectors.

Looking towards the future, I would recommend at least 650cc injectors and either DSMLink or an EPROM ECU with custom A/F and timing maps to tune them with. If you have dreams of going 11's on this turbo, a 255 pump and an AFPR would be the best bet since the 190 is marginal at this point. For mid to low 12's though, a 190 will be fine. Going with DSMLink or an EPROM ECU will also help you avoid the timing nightmares caused by an AFC when correcting for larger injectors. You could run 950's with Link or a chipped ECU and have it idle like stock.

Also, I'd like for you to ignore your A/F gauge. Get a real wideband instead since this is a better indicator of whether the motor's rich or lean. An Autometer A/F is nothing more than a blinky light show that tells you if the front O2 is cyclig properly.

Let us know if you have more questions,

Andy

 

[DSMFalcon]

Tuning is key when you are modifying your car. Focus on keeping it running excellent with every upgrade. Your best direction is a socketed eprom, dsmlink and wideband. Expensive butdeffinately worth the money. After that you should really start with intake and exhaust to support the turbo. The intake/exhaust system is only as strong as it's weakest link. You can have everything yet one restriction like exhaust and you'll never get the power you destrve. Id say run it at 10psi. Get it tuned and work on intake, exhaust and FUEL. Fuel is key. Do not lean out your engine.

 

[weaver]

Thanks again, you guys are very helpful. I'm still confused about my A/F guage though. If I did turn up the boost too high I run the risk of going lean. But would my A/F not show the lean fuel mix? If this happened then I could adjust the boost as high as I can without the A/F showing lean. I've done alot of reading, but I'm still new to this. I can't afford the data logger or the dsm link right now, so what I have (boost and A/F gauge) is the only tools I have to work with. Maybe someone can clear me up on this.

 

[Slippi84]

Problem with that is that a/fgauge is not accurate. To do what your saying you owuld need a wideband. I too have the blinking light show gauge but it's just that ....for show to fill up my pod.

 

[weaver]

I wasn't gonna get one, but the technician said I needed one. That's an expensive ass light show!! Would an EGT be more benificial?

 

[Slippi84]

I wasn't gonna get one, but the technician said I needed one. That's an expensive ass light show!! Would an EGT be more benificial?

No a wideband is night and day more important than an egt gauge. A egt gauge is a precaustionary gauge a wideband is a tuning guage. Of course people tune for egt because they figure when it gets to hott they're gonn aknock and just run it to that point but with a wideband all the guessing is taken out and you deal with just the a/f no bs.

 

[KansasDSM]

I honestly believe that anyones first upgrade should be a dsm but in your case since you already have the turbo i would do the fuel pump first then get the dsmlink just dsmlink can take you a long ways.

 

[Slippi84]

I honestly believe that anyones first upgrade should be a dsm but in your case since you already have the turbo i would do the fuel pump first then get the dsmlink just dsmlink can take you a long ways.

Do you mean that the first upgrade should be dsmlink not a dsm? If so I def disagree. Not to mention that the upgrade path on this ery site disputes that as well. Dsmlink to a person who hasn't reaserched and done his home work and doesn't know as much about dsm's is a one way ticket to a new motor. That is why you don't just go out and get dsmlink. Of course lookin back you can say I wish I got it before but that's because you know what you know now. This guy didn't really know about wideband as aposed to narrow band a/f gauges you think he knows about tuning for knock and timing and fuel maps and things like that? No offense to the poster as I didn't know about that stuff either when I first got my car. Tuning is where it is in the upgrade path for a reason

 

[weaver]

Yeah, I don't want to screw things up that's for sure. I still have alot of support mods to do before I dive into tuning.