HKS 264s - How much power will I gain?

[Rob Rohr]

I am tossing around the idea of buying HKS 264s for my car (daily driver, don't want 272s!). The deciding factors will be A) How much power I can gain B) How much it will affect my off-boost and low RPM power and C) If I need more supporting mods to make the cams breathe. Those with firsthand 264 experience please tell me what you think.

Here is my current set up (1G TSi)
-Evo 16g, Evo O2, Ported 2G mani, MBC
-MAFT, 550cc, 255lph, Keydiver, etc
-3" DP, 2.5" exhaust, no cat
-Larger SMIC, 2.5" UICP + TB elbow

Thanks

 

[G_S_X]

without cam gears, on a evo16g, maybe 20horses? but it will help your powerband last longer so it will help a lot

 

[DWAIST]

there is nothing wrong with 272's on a daily driver! although the 264's might be the best cams for the turbo of your size! my opinion of streetable is different than most! i love my 272's!!

 

[PieTSI]

http://www.automotosports.com/cam_test.asp

 

[DWAIST]

http://www.automotosports.com/cam_test.asp

i love that article!

 

[Rob Rohr]

i love that article!

It is a good article but it is the only one everyone always quotes! There must be other guys out there who dyno pre and post 264 dynos. If I could pick up ~20whp I'd go for it, but I don't want to spend $600 for 10whp!

Thanks

 

[Larry L]

Ok you mentioned 20 whp without cam gears but how much with, and tuned?

 

[Dallas J]

Last time I heard Shep uses 272's off the shelf with no cam gears. The reason people use them is cause the fact that they are so close to center stock. You might be able to get a few ponies out of it with cams gears, but Id doubt itll be even noticable.

-Dallas J

 

[95GSXBLUR]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like the HKS 264/272 combo is the best...

264/264= 323HP 333TQ
264/272= 324HP 333TQ<----+10TQ
272/272= 325HP 323TQ<----+1HP

I mean, I'd sacrifice 1HP for 10FT-LBs of torque. Isn't that the way to go? Why don't you do something like that dude.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that since they're all the same price, the 264/272 combo has the most power gains and allows for a better idle....I'd go that route.

 

[CanadianTSi]

264/272 is the best Combo for the Street IMO. Although If I were you I would go with a FMIC and bigger Injectors before I got Cams...

 

[David15151]

getting cams is not all about the max horsepower. You get cams to change the powerband to be more in your favor. If you look at the powerband in those tests you can see some RPM ranges are about 50 horses over stock to the wheels. Thats why people get cams... its not about the max.. its about the difference in the entire RPM range.

 

[pboglio]

Rob,

I did the HKS 264/264 cam install about 3 months back. Mods are a 2g with T28, hks 264/264 cams, ADFX fmic, 660 inj, fuel pump, dsmlink, 2.5" turboback exhaust, HKS VPC, etc. Pretty simple install using RRE's quicky instructions. My dsmlink showed about a 25 h.p. increase at the same boost level. Instead of the boost hitting hard and rolling off, the torque hits and keeps you pressed into the seat close to redline. My max torque output is no higher but it holds almost to 6800 rpm. Actually the cams gave me some nasty torque steer on my AWD so 2 hands on the steering wheel is how I drive now.

Idle got a touch lumpier so I bumped up the idle speed to 1000 rpm. Exhaust note while revving also got a bit more "brap,brap". I believe in AMS's cam test the boost spiked to 23 psi and then dropped to 19 psi thus the 50 ft/lb increase, not because of the hks cams. One thing to note, with the HKS cams in place and maintaining the same O2 voltages my car is knocking like never before. I had to really pull a lot of timing back to solve this. Driveability is the same as stock, only reason not to buy'em is because of the cost and maybe emissions. Cheers.

Gene

 

[NewB2dsm]

I would get a fmic before cams.

But i have the comp racing 100's and i gained 35awhp on race gas and ~15awhp on pump from stock cams to the cmop cams.

And whoever said you need cam gears to get power out of cams is a moron. Only reason you should get cam gears is if you want to degree the cams, and some cams need to be degreed to get it to run correctly. the HKS, comp, FP cams do not need to be degreed.

 

[Rob Rohr]

But i have the comp racing 100's and i gained 35awhp on race gas and ~15awhp on pump from stock cams to the cmop cams.

.

Those are great gains from the mild Comp cams! What other mods does your car have? How many psi were you running with the pump gas gains?

 

[NewB2dsm]

Those are great gains from the mild Comp cams! What other mods does your car have? How many psi were you running with the pump gas gains?

Mods are in my profile but basicly; small 16g, 550's, 190 pump, FMIC w/ 2.5" piping, 1g TB, 3" exhuast, evo o2 housing, and so on.

Pump gas was ~20psi and race gas was 26psi droping to 18-19psi very fast.

 

[Rob Rohr]

Mods are in my profile but basicly; small 16g, 550's, 190 pump, FMIC w/ 2.5" piping, 1g TB, 3" exhuast, evo o2 housing, and so on.

Pump gas was ~20psi and race gas was 26psi droping to 18-19psi very fast.

WOW So your small 16g car with basic bolt-ons and the mild Comp cams made ~320awhp on pump gas? That is awesome! Do you have adj. cam gears or did you just drop them in? Did you notice any bad traits (start up, idle, etc?) and did the turbo-lag get better or worse?

Due to the price difference I am sold on the Comps vs. the HKS.


Thanks

 

[NewB2dsm]

WOW So your small 16g car with basic bolt-ons and the mild Comp cams made ~320awhp on pump gas? That is awesome! Do you have adj. cam gears or did you just drop them in? Did you notice any bad traits (start up, idle, etc?) and did the turbo-lag get better or worse?

Due to the price difference I am sold on the Comps vs. the HKS.


Thanks

303awhp on pump gas and 338awhp on race gas.

Turbo still spools pretty much the same, idle is ruffer now you can defenatly tell there are cams in it. But nothing horrible. Also just dropped this in, stock cam gears.

 

[guitarXgeek]

One thing to note, with the HKS cams in place and maintaining the same O2 voltages my car is knocking like never before. I had to really pull a lot of timing back to solve this

Is this a common problem with these cams, or is it just something that you got because of other factors?

 

[pboglio]

guitarXgeek

I'm not sure. My car is a freak, my car doesn't behave like other peoples cars mods wise. Maybe I knocked an exhaust cam off 1 tooth off or so. I'm making a ton of power but my knock went thru the roof as soon as my car comes on boost. I blame it on the higher duration & higher lift exhaust cam. I think the backpressure on my small T28 is making its way back into the combustion chamber (reversion). I had 0 knock before and then boom 15 counts after, no matter how much fuel I added/subtracted and I did have to pull like 4* timing across the board with DSMLink to solve it. Who knows, I'm done tuning for the year any way so I'll wait till next year to solve it Later

Gene

 

[NewB2dsm]

guitarXgeek

I'm not sure. My car is a freak, my car doesn't behave like other peoples cars mods wise. Maybe I knocked an exhaust cam off 1 tooth off or so. I'm making a ton of power but my knock went thru the roof as soon as my car comes on boost. I blame it on the higher duration & higher lift exhaust cam. I think the backpressure on my small T28 is making its way back into the combustion chamber (reversion). I had 0 knock before and then boom 15 counts after, no matter how much fuel I added/subtracted and I did have to pull like 4* timing across the board with DSMLink to solve it. Who knows, I'm done tuning for the year any way so I'll wait till next year to solve it Later

Gene

Check your timing first off. Also you will flow more air with cams, maye you cant run as hi of boost as you did before.

 

[pboglio]

NewB2dsm,

Yeah, its really weird. Well my ignition timing does looks good at cruise and WOT, that never changed. Maybe my small turbo and increased overlap aren't getting along with each other, who knows. I'd like to get some cam gears and degree the HKS units, as soon as I figure out how to do that Yeah, I do get the boost drop off now. Your car is putting out some very respectable numbers, nice setup. Thanks for the tips.

Gene

 

[Rob Rohr]

It sounds strange that you would get bad knock from installing cams, but maybe the extra airflow means you need to lower the boost a bit? I don't think this is a common issue when installing mild cams.

Do any of you cam'd guys have stalling or starting issues? I know some have raised the idle a bit to help with this.

 

[1LE]

Is this a common problem with these cams, or is it just something that you got because of other factors?

I don't have that problem with my 264/264 combo. Car used to idle like an old muscle car (at 900 rpms), but some playing around with fuel (VPC/GCC setup) has got it back to idling at a steady 750rpms again. It's on the edge though (easy to stall if you let them drop much)...

 

[Tort9320g]

My friends 90 FWD had a B16G, 550s, FMIC, 3", hacked MAF, AFC, and 264s. It made 313 whp on pump at 19psi and trapped 111mph (and the AVCR was set for 12psi in 1st, 15psi in 2nd, and 19psi in 3-4).Having MAF helps alot with idle and driveability, they're more noticeable with a VPC.

 

[prostreetdsmx1]

it really is impossible to say how much you will gain with a set of cams. It really depends on your setup and conditions. with a mitsu turbo like a 16g you can definately see power gains across your power band with a 264 set.

I will say our best experience has been with a 264/272 setup but that is also for larger turbos for cars built for top end performance.

best of luck with your build.