Help me out!

[SnoopySLR]

This is an odd request, but I believe I know what is wrong with my car

Can someone measure a sparkplug and tell me how long the threaded area is?

I believe I was given the wrong spark plugs and thats why my engine wont turn over... the piston is smashing into the spark plug cause its too long. I'll know more tomorrow, but if someone could do this for me, I would appreciate it!

Could have the monster living tomorrow if this is all it is!

 

[selmerguy]

Snoop I dont have a tape infront of me but the threaded area is the width of my thumb. About 1 in or a little bigger. The srt4 plugs are too long ao if they sold you those take them out.

 

[bullettdsm]

Don't know if you still need it Snoop, but I got 3/4 of an inch from the squash down washer to the end of the threads. It is 15/16's from the squash down to the top of the electrode. For what it's worth, I just got my 10.9 comp engine going. There seemed to be a bit of space for the spark plug off the dome. Are you sure that you're not off on the cams a little? Maybe not picking up right spot on the adjustables? Just a thought.
Good luck,
MB

 

[SnoopySLR]

Timing is good. The adjustables are at 0. I haven't tuned those yet, waiting on a dyno run to do that stuff.

Thanks for the measurement. I'm going to get new plugs from the dealer today and we'll see what happens. Thanks

 

[Talon ESI-T]

Edit: nevermind Cam gears do not have anything to do with your issue. Could be wrong plugs or head shaved too much. You didnt use a long rod (type of connecting rod) in your bottom end did you?


Terry

 

[SnoopySLR]

head has never been shaved... standard length on rods...

I checked, and I have the right sparkplugs... so its even weirder... I'm going to wrench on it again tomorrow. I'm going to see if everything rotates with no spark plugs in it.

 

[bullettdsm]

Snoop,
Haven't been following the forums that closely (very busy with work and engine builds). Did I miss a post on your problem? I take it you are locking up. Any marks on the plugs? Did she turn over on engine stand? Or did you build in car? Could it be a clutch/TO bearing geometry issue? Maybe something stuck there? Just for brain farts sake, #1 @TDC, are the four cam lobes for that cylinder pointing up (obviously not directly up but showing all valves are closed)? Nothing dropped in the lower gears? Just trying to give you some food for thought that might help loosen up the brain cells .
MB

 

[SnoopySLR]

here is whats up, for those who don't know.

I got the motor running beautifully. 1800 miles into the new motor the Goodyear Gatorback Timing belt I had snapped (POS). Took out all the valves. I ripped the head off again and replaced all the valves.

This is where it gets stupid. I put the head back on and put everything back together. Got my new Mopar timing belt on, set timing, and ROTATED the crank around with the timing belt to make sure timing marks were correct. Point is, I used a 3/8 Rachet to spin the crank. I pulled the tensioner pin out and put the rest of the motor together. After I finished everything and attemted to start it, the motor turned about 2 degrees and locked up. It made a loud clicking noise(starters saftey slip) and wouldn't spin at all.

I'm 99% sure I didn't have spark plugs in the car when I was setting timing, so I figured that was it. After seeing my plug just smashed to the electrode. I have the correct plugs in my car... and thats where I'm at now. I'm going to work on it again tomorrow. I'm going to attempt to rotate the crank with no plugs in it. If it spins I'll know, if it doesn't square one.

I was wondering if our plugs could even hit the piston... we have hemi-spherical style combustion chambers... so the plug sits higher than the valves and the bottom of the head. My biggest concer now would be... SOMEHOW I have a foriegn object in my cylinder... I'll keep everyone informed and get some pics tomorrow

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Wow... I'm sorry to hear about all of the recent bad luck Snoop.

I only have two things to add:

1.) Our cylinder heads are pent-roof, not hemispherical. Either way, you're right, the plug should still sit higher than the valves - we certainly don't have flat heads or anything.

2.) I wonder how something could've gotten in to one of the chambers (if that is indeed what happened); you would've seen it when you pulled the head for the valves. I'm curious to see how this all pans out. Good luck.

 

[dr1665]

Wow. Good luck, Snoop. Sounds like a poseur. I had something similar happen on my first rebuild, but I caught it at assembly. The machine shop that did the block told me to install my pistons backwards. Dullards. :\

 

[SnoopySLR]

1.) Our cylinder heads are pent-roof, not hemispherical.

Didn't know what the term was... semi-hemispherical just sounds stupid....

The machine shop that did the block told me to install my pistons backwards. Dullards. :\

I thought our pistons were the symmetrical?

 

[bullettdsm]

Crap Snoop! I'm almost sorry that I started to read forums again. Sorry to hear about the problems . I'm running 10.5s with .020 taken off the head and I had plenty of spark plug room (I always check for TDC on a visual when I am doing timing. Just a good habit). Just to help out (though I may be stating the obvious), Shine a flash light down the hole that had the smashed spark plug. You should have a mark corresponding to the location of the top of the plug. If the mark goes out further (or different than) the spark plug then you have a foreign object in the cylinder. I really can see no reason that your spark plug is smashed (presuming that it is not some kind of weirdo long nose) unless somehow it was put in there like that . The throw of the rods is the throw of the rods. The crank's not going to move. The valves don't even come into play because you are looking at spark plug damage. You couldn't have snapped the head off a valve! It's gotta be something foreign in there to cause damage.

Good luck with it (and my condolences again),
MB

 

[VelocitàPaola]

I thought our pistons were the symmetrical?

I'm sure it must depend on the manufacturer; especially if you change the compression ratio - due to the dishes/mounds and all...

 

[SnoopySLR]

You couldn't have snapped the head off a valve!

I thought of that, but if that was the case a lasher cause of the stem just falling out. All my lashers are solid. More news tomorrow. I'm hoping I don't have to pull the head again, but I'll probably have too.

 

[dr1665]

I'm sure it must depend on the manufacturer; especially if you change the compression ratio - due to the dishes/mounds and all...

These were domed Wiseco 10.5/1CR pistons. Never again...

 

[bullettdsm]

These were domed Wiseco 10.5/1CR pistons. Never again...

Ha, ha, ha. I'm pretty happy with my JE's so far. Nice tight quality clearances and 150 on motor so far. I shied away from the wisecos partly because of the problem you had.
MB

 

[SnoopySLR]

well, I tried rotating everything with no plugs.. wouldn't spin. So I ripped the head off. Cams and journals are fine, and the crank rotates beautifully with no belt on it. I noticed my idler pulley was loose I'm thinking that was it. I'm going to put the timing belt on again... this time I'm going to take my time and tripple check everything. I was extremely rushed last time cause my semister at school was over and they wanted my car out!

The plugs have to just be a coinencidence, not sure how that happened. This weekend I hope to have her in motion again.

 

[XMasta19]

w00t...u can do it!

 

[dr1665]

Call me crazy, but I'm starting to suspect you might have the HG installed backwards. It's a long shot, but we've covered the rest of the usual suspects, imo. If the HG wasn't in place right, it is metal, and it could interfere with the piston travel.

Just a thought.

My last HG swap, c. July 2005 (been leaking since August - sigh)
http://az2gnt.net/DR1665/Daisy/420A/hg+arp072505.JPG

 

[speed127]

Hey everyone... I'm semi new here and going the narrow road of all motor like some of you. Anyway I just rebuilt my engine and per DR1665 saying that the HG is on backwards that would not be a factor. I know because in rebuilding mine I DID put the HG on backwards and everything was good.. the car ran.. the only problem was 2 holes were switched and I was pumping oil into the antifreaze and antifreaze into the oil. Simple check is look at your oil dipstick and see if it looks milky. Or if the valve cover is off, put like 10psi pressure into your coolent system and see if water comes up around your cams. But I'm betting that is not your problem. Mine ran fine with it on backwards... I feel for you.... having to do things 2-3-4 times is just the JOYS of owning a DSM

 

[SnoopySLR]

Well, she is back together. Shy of a new set of plugs and a PS belt I'm ready to fire it up. Everything is rotating beautifully and I couldn't be happier. I took some time and welded in some supports for my intercooler. Intercooler sits perfectly straight now, used to sag cause the mounts were shitty.

I'll be getting plugs and time this weekend. As always, thanks for everyones help. Never did figure out why the timing belt wouldn't spin though It spins now, so thats what counts

 

[bullettdsm]

Ha, God damn gremlins . Glad to hear it Snoop. Good luck with the fire up. Just a side question though. I am torn between the ngk5's and the ngk6's. Any opinion on how or why you chose what you chose? Lot's of searching get's me lot's of different opinions. Just wondering about yours.
Thanks,
MB

 

[dr1665]

It spins now, so thats what counts

It spinnin'! It spinnaaaaaaaaan'!

Good news on a Monday. Huzzah.

 

[SnoopySLR]

Well, she is almost ready. I tried to start it, and it doesn't wanna start. I found that 1 & 4 aren't getting spark, so I think my coil went bad. Anyone got an extra coil laying around they'd wanna part with? Don't really wanna buy another MSD coil at the moment.

 

[bullettdsm]

Sorry man, I'd give it if I had it. I got lotta 1g turbo coils laying around but that won't help you. Sorry.
Good Luck,
MB