help balance shaft elimination!!!!!!!!!!!!

[topsecretgs]

hey i need some insite you guys so i sent my 1990 gsx to the shop to get a new oil pump installed just dont have the time to it myself but anyways so the mechanic called me up and told me that my balance shaft is all messed up so i did some research and orderd a balance shaft elimination kit but he said that the balance shaft slot (sorry for the wrong terms ) is all messed up and he cant put the elimination shaft in there because it doesnt seat properly and he said my engine is shot now am i just a newb or is this guy a retart

 

[td12682]

I would go to the shop and personally take a look if possible......, but I couldn't see the balance shafts doing too much damage to the journals. Bring your digital camera with you and see if you can take some pictures and post them on here.

 

[93_tsi_fwd]

There just saying all that BS cause they want your money!!! you know how alot of shop's are like that. They say alot of problems going on but it only one. Then they write what they changed, but when you ask for the part, they dont have it.

just giving you a heads up before spending all your money.

 

[DSM1G90]

Yea, it's pretty sad when shops take advantage of their customers esp. when their business is slow and need to make a few bucks - and they know 90% of their customers don't know what they know and charge accordingly.

 

[1992awdlaser]

No shops I have worked at does business like that no matter how slow we are. I just feel like I have to say that since in a way you are talking about me. I'm guessing you guys that are suggesting this don't know that you can actually spin a balance shaft bearing and damage the block.

 

[xveganxcowboyx]

They would have to be pretty bad to not fit the block off kit. I'd go take a look.

 

[93_tsi_fwd]

No shops I have worked at does business like that no matter how slow we are. I just feel like I have to say that since in a way you are talking about me. I'm guessing you guys that are suggesting this don't know that you can actually spin a balance shaft bearing and damage the block.

Sorry if that offended you, but some shop's do, do that.

 

[awdtalontsi1992]

I work at a garage and I'm sad to say that some garages do business that way. I get customers all the time that come to me with the same story..even dealers have done it. That is why whenever I recommend something to a customer I sit down and completely explain it to them. I even often show them the defective parts after the work is done. I wish more garages operated this way so we didn't all get a bad rap. That being said the shop you took your car to may just not be familar with DSMs and are misunderstanding what exactly they have to do with the BS Elimination kit. If they are a good shop they should allow you to view the damage yourself. I would recommend you call them and go see it for yourself. If you can take some pictures there are a ton of members here that can give you their expert opinions as to what you should do. If they refuse then I would take it to another shop.

 

[1992awdlaser]

I work at a garage and I'm sad to say that some garages do business that way. I get customers all the time that come to me with the same story..even dealers have done it. That is why whenever I recommend something to a customer I sit down and completely explain it to them. I even often show them the defective parts after the work is done. I wish more garages operated this way so we didn't all get a bad rap. That being said the shop you took your car to may just not be familar with DSMs and are misunderstanding what exactly they have to do with the BS Elimination kit. If they are a good shop they should allow you to view the damage yourself. I would recommend you call them and go see it for yourself. If you can take some pictures there are a ton of members here that can give you their expert opinions as to what you should do. If they refuse then I would take it to another shop.

Everytime I give somebody an estimate for work I bring them in the shop and show them what is wrong. And most of the time I will show them how it is supposed to be if I have another car in the shop that has a good one on it.

Sorry if that offended you, but some shop's do, do that.

I know you didn't mean to offend me. I just had to say it because there are some people out there that think all mechanics rip people off and never do honest business.

 

[BrokenTsi]

I've had this happen to my engine personally. If a balance shaft goes bad, it usually eats the bearing away, and you cant press in a new bearing because the journal is all worn out. Now there is no way to block off that oil passage. It IS repairable however.

This is how I repaired it. There is a screw in the front of the block that you can remove. Its located right at the bearing for the front balance shaft. If you remove the balance shaft, and the screw, you can see the oil passage that needs to be blocked. I drilled the hole out larger so I could tap the oil passage and thread a bolt into the oil passage and block it off that way. I then tapped the block itself so I could seal the larger hole I drilled out with another bolt. .

But yeah, the shop is right. A machine shop could repair it for an oversized bearing however, but that could get pricey. They could even repair it the way I did, but do a better job at doing so. The engine will run however without blocking it off, you'll just have lower then normal oil pressure. My car ran without that balance shaft bearing for almost a full year before I went to do a BS removal of my own. I had very low oil pressure tho.

 

[BrokenTsi]

They would have to be pretty bad to not fit the block off kit. I'd go take a look.

No. It wouldnt have to be bad AT ALL. Balance shafts dont mess up. The bearings do, for whatever reason. Maybe oil contamination, wear, whatever...... But as soon as that shaft has no bearing, it will destroy that journal in a matter of seconds. If it wears out .001, engine is done. Those bearings press in pretty tight.

 

[topsecretgs]

so basicly if i take pics tomorrow will you guys be able to tell me if it is all effed up

 

[BrokenTsi]

You wont be able to take pics of it. You can barely get your hands up in there to see what you're doing thru the oil pan. And I doubt you'll be able to get pics of the rear bearing thru the front of the engine. The mechanic can show you how the bearing wont press on however.

 

[topsecretgs]

so basicly im just gonna have to kinda fly blind here this is gonna be my first balance shaft elim install so but i think if i have your guys help i can do it im having my eclipse picked up tomorrow

 

[DSM1G90]

I drilled the hole out larger so I could tap the oil passage and thread a bolt into the oil passage and block it off that way. I then tapped the block itself so I could seal the larger hole I drilled out with another bolt. .

..what size was your inside tap, and what size did you make the block (outside) tap?

That's a good trick to know if one ever encounters a front BS going fubar... thx-DSM

 

[xveganxcowboyx]

No. It wouldnt have to be bad AT ALL. Balance shafts dont mess up. The bearings do, for whatever reason. Maybe oil contamination, wear, whatever...... But as soon as that shaft has no bearing, it will destroy that journal in a matter of seconds. If it wears out .001, engine is done. Those bearings press in pretty tight.

I've only ever done the elimination on a clean and undamaged engine, but I would think that even if the journal had some scoring You could still press it in. You may have to smooth things out a little before doing so, but the goal is simply to have it fit toght and block oil so as long as you can squeeze the new bearing in it should be no problem.

 

[1992awdlaser]

I've only ever done the elimination on a clean and undamaged engine, but I would think that even if the journal had some scoring You could still press it in. You may have to smooth things out a little before doing so, but the goal is simply to have it fit toght and block oil so as long as you can squeeze the new bearing in it should be no problem.

Brokentsi deffinately knows what he is talking about. I wouldn't question anything he says.

 

[BrokenTsi]

..what size was your inside tap, and what size did you make the block (outside) tap?

That's a good trick to know if one ever encounters a front BS going fubar... thx-DSM

Its been a while, I forget. I think I did the block itself maybe 1/2 inch. Gotta have enough room to fit a bolt thru it. I found a bolt with a reduced sized head for an allen wrench and threaded that into the oiling hole.

 

[xveganxcowboyx]

Brokentsi deffinately knows what he is talking about. I wouldn't question anything he says.

Oh, I don't doubt that, I'm just curious. Looking for a little more explanation maybe.

 

[snamtrac]

I just found out today that I have the same problem. Not sure which journal weared out on you, but mine is the one furthest inside the engine. I went through a bunch of bearings before realizing whats wrong. They would all just slip through.

I was thinking of buying a oversized bearing and pressing it in. It seems like a pretty reliable option. Is there any easier way? I want to finish building my motor

 

[BrokenTsi]

a machine shop COULD find you an oversized bearing. But you dont know how that journal wore. It could be oval shaped, or more worn on one side then the other. Visit a reputable machine shop and see what your alternatives are.

 

[snamtrac]

Actually I am going to try the technique of tapping that hole in the front of the block that leads to the oil passage journal. I have read that you retap it, so it goes further in then just use a longer bolt. I will try that tomorrow.

I am hopefull

 

[BrokenTsi]

when you tap it, use some grease to catch the metal shavings, then try to swab it out. You will make a lot of metal shavings, just clean it out good.

 

[topsecretgs]

No. It wouldnt have to be bad AT ALL. Balance shafts dont mess up. The bearings do, for whatever reason. Maybe oil contamination, wear, whatever...... But as soon as that shaft has no bearing, it will destroy that journal in a matter of seconds. If it wears out .001, engine is done. Those bearings press in pretty tight.

so what do i do now the journal is all screwed up the eliminator ring just falls through

 

[snamtrac]

Actually I am going to try the technique of tapping that hole in the front of the block that leads to the oil passage journal. I have read that you retap it, so it goes further in then just use a longer bolt. I will try that tomorrow.

I am hopefull

Do that. It worked for me.