Headgasket is bad - questions and concerns.

[DSM IN MN]

My dad bought my 1999 Eclipse GS-T from a local auction he is allowed to buy from (he possess a dealers license in the state of MN). The car HAD 152,9xx miles on it when we originally got it. I drove it until the timing belt tensioner started letting go. Then my dad had the timing belt, tensioner, and balance-shaft belt done.

Ok at this point I was like "Cool, the car is fixed, great!". I drove it around this summer for about 2 months total. Then a friend and I went to the Minneapolis area to pick-up an Evo. III engine block and a few other parts. As we got going, the car was running much hotter than usual.

I pulled over at a gas station and added some water to the over-flow and that did the trick. We got to the 'Cities, grabbed the parts, ate and was out of there.. And about an hour and a half from our home-town, the car got ALMOST to the red line so I pulled over and shut her down.

After numerous times of alternating from sitting on the side of the road waiting for the car too cool, and driving until the heat temp. was a little too high from my liking we made it to a gas station and bought two gallon jugs of water. It was almost 1am. A guy on his motorcycle came over and said its probably a head gasket.

I brought it to work one day telling the guys I work with I needed a thermostat and rad. cap (I work at NAPA). They told me the cost and I was ready to have them order it. Then one asked what it was doing. I told them it was running hot, and I always had to add cool water to the over flow. And that when I parked the car the overflow tank gurgled from water coming into it. They ALL told me it sounded like a head gasket.

One of the guys I work with went to lunch, came back and said "Man! Can I smell coolant from your car, WOW!". I brought the car to my dad's shop and let it cool. Sure as hell, there was nearly no coolant in the system. I opened the rad. cap and there wasn't anything there; no green coolant to be found.


NOW; I know its the head gasket but, since I'm taking the head off, should I replace the oil pump and water pump for peace in mind? I mean, I'm putting a Cometic HG, ARPs and the works on the thing.

Question 1:
Should I replace everything (oil pump, water pump)?

Question 2:
Since the timing belt and tensioner are kind of new, are they going to be ok, or do I replace those as well?

Those are my main questions I would REALLY like to be answered.

Thank you for reading my little book, .

 

[TSITurbo95]

You can reuse the timing belt and tensioner, but while the head is off, I would replace the water pump and pulleys while you are in there (preventative maintenance). Don't really need to replace the oil pump unless it's bad, which is highly unlikely as they don't go bad that often.

 

[1MeanTSI]

I think you should be safe. Just the gasket and studs should be awesome. What kind of budget are you on? If you got cash I would recommend a 16g, boost controller, and front mount while you're at it!

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

Well, just to be the oddball out here - not everything coolant related is going to be a headgasket. You could be losing coolant from many areas, be it a cracked coolant line, a bad thermostat housing to head gasket, a leaking radiator. etc. There are a plethora of things that could cause coolant to leak/boil and for your car to over-heat.

I'd start with a compression/leakdown test, just for the peace of mind that you don't rip that head off and it not be the head gasket. I'd also check for any leak sources, check the smell and color of the smoke coming from your exhaust, and also check the heater core lines to make sure they aren't leaking inside your vehicle.

Again, just tossing it out there to widen your view.

 

[DSM IN MN]

You can reuse the timing belt and tensioner, but while the head is off, I would replace the water pump and pulleys while you are in there (preventative maintenance). Don't really need to replace the oil pump unless it's bad, which is highly unlikely as they don't go bad that often.

I'm eliminating the balance shaft so I just figured why not replace it. That and I can get one from NAPA for a good price considering I get an employee discount.

I'm eliminating the balance shaft so I just figured why not replace it. That and I can get one from NAPA for a good price considering I get an employee discount.

I think you should be safe. Just the gasket and studs should be awesome. What kind of budget are you on? If you got cash I would recommend a 16g, boost controller, and front mount while you're at it!

Budget? About $350 wever 2-weeks...with $300 going to parts for the car

Already have a friend selling me a E3 16 and FMIC. BC is all I need. Getting cams and the works as well though.

 

[97gsxIA]

Speaking of preventative maintenance, *IF* you need to replace the headgasket, I'd replace the thermostat as you were previously going to do as well. its the ol motto of "while youre in there." And like Xik said, do a leak down test. From my experience, if you blow a headgasket youd be puttin out some serious white smoke, if not AT LEAST a little. If your leakdown test is good, Id pressurize your cooling system and look for leaks. That coolant has to go somewhere, cant just disappear

 

[95talongirl]

Agreed, with the above statements... do a leakdown to see if it is, indeed, the head gasket and not something in the cooling system. You are defiantly loosing coolant, but the question is where. Although the symptoms do point towards the gasket (gurgling water, missing coolant, ect), its' good to just check. It could just be a small leak from the gasket, which will show when pressurized. Or worst case it's a crack in the cylinder head.

You should be ok reusing those timing parts that were recently replaced. If you do deem it needs ahead gasket, a new water pump would be recommended. Oil pump.. some people will say so, others will say you'll be ok. I think an oil pump would be recommended more if you were rebuilding the bottom half since the oil pan needs to come off.

 

[-red97rum-]

You really should to do a compression and leak down test to verify it's a head gasket. No point in blindly doing a head gasket job if it's not needed.

Do you have any white smoke coming out of the exhaust? Does it smell like coolant coming out of the exhaust? It is possible to only push coolant while in boost but your overflow tank would be full/over flowing when you checked it.

If you do end up doing the HG you'll be fine to reuse the timing belt components. Oil pump should be just fine - although if you're going to eliminate the balance shafts you might want to get a new one since you'll be pulling it apart anyway. Or just inspect the gears and make sure everything is within spec. Personally I'd go with a Mitsu mls gasket before a cometic. On the other hand, if you're not planning to go much bigger than a 16g you can save some $$ just sticking with a composite gasket and some ARPs.

 

[DSM IN MN]

Well, just to be the oddball out here - not everything coolant related is going to be a headgasket. You could be losing coolant from many areas, be it a cracked coolant line, a bad thermostat housing to head gasket, a leaking radiator. etc. There are a plethora of things that could cause coolant to leak/boil and for your car to over-heat.

I'd start with a compression/leakdown test, just for the peace of mind that you don't rip that head off and it not be the head gasket. I'd also check for any leak sources, check the smell and color of the smoke coming from your exhaust, and also check the heater core lines to make sure they aren't leaking inside your vehicle.

Again, just tossing it out there to widen your view.

Compression test, ok I'm sure a friend of mine could accomplish that. However, what is a leakdown test.

I have white exhaust coming from the car. Not too much though.

 

[2GbTalonGuy]

Question 1. Yes

Question 2. Replace

and good luck, once you get through that, you will know how to do what I would consider the toughest maintenance on these cars.

 

[DSM IN MN]

Compression test, ok I'm sure a friend of mine could accomplish that. However, what is a leakdown test.

I have white exhaust coming from the car. Not too much though.

Speaking of preventative maintenance, *IF* you need to replace the headgasket, I'd replace the thermostat as you were previously going to do as well. its the ol motto of "while youre in there." And like Xik said, do a leak down test. From my experience, if you blow a headgasket youd be puttin out some serious white smoke, if not AT LEAST a little. If your leakdown test is good, Id pressurize your cooling system and look for leaks. That coolant has to go somewhere, cant just disappear

Thermostat, rad. cap, maybe a Mishimoto radiator, intake man. gasket, yeah; the works .

I have yet to look up what a leak down test is so I wouldn't know what you are talking about when you say that.

I forget if I mentioned but after putting the water in the coolant, if my friend and I were to stop at a gas station (as we did), to get coffee or whatever, the overflow would be puking out the coolant and water. I mean, you could hear is coming out like a stream from the tube.

Thermostat, rad. cap, maybe a Mishimoto radiator, intake man. gasket, yeah; the works .

I have yet to look up what a leak down test is so I wouldn't know what you are talking about when you say that.

I forget if I mentioned but after putting the water in the coolant, if my friend and I were to stop at a gas station (as we did), to get coffee or whatever, the overflow would be puking out the coolant and water. I mean, you could hear is coming out like a stream from the tube.

Agreed, with the above statements... do a leakdown to see if it is, indeed, the head gasket and not something in the cooling system. You are defiantly loosing coolant, but the question is where. Although the symptoms do point towards the gasket (gurgling water, missing coolant, ect), its' good to just check. It could just be a small leak from the gasket, which will show when pressurized. Or worst case it's a crack in the cylinder head.

You should be ok reusing those timing parts that were recently replaced. If you do deem it needs ahead gasket, a new water pump would be recommended. Oil pump.. some people will say so, others will say you'll be ok. I think an oil pump would be recommended more if you were rebuilding the bottom half since the oil pan needs to come off.

I'm with everyone too on this. I don't want to redo stuff I'm already in there doing, you know? I want to make sure everythign need be replaced, is.

That is another thing I was thinking of asking. Some people have been saving my car is burning oil. I figured; piston rings. If I have the head off, I figured "Why not pop the pistons/rods out and get new rings? IDK, I thought it MIGHT be a good idea. Finding the rings however...well let's just say I haven't found any yet.

Thermostat, rad. cap, maybe a Mishimoto radiator, intake man. gasket, yeah; the works .

I have yet to look up what a leak down test is so I wouldn't know what you are talking about when you say that.

I forget if I mentioned but after putting the water in the coolant, if my friend and I were to stop at a gas station (as we did), to get coffee or whatever, the overflow would be puking out the coolant and water. I mean, you could hear is coming out like a stream from the tube.





I'm with everyone too on this. I don't want to redo stuff I'm already in there doing, you know? I want to make sure everythign need be replaced, is.

That is another thing I was thinking of asking. Some people have been saving my car is burning oil. I figured; piston rings. If I have the head off, I figured "Why not pop the pistons/rods out and get new rings? IDK, I thought it MIGHT be a good idea. Finding the rings however...well let's just say I haven't found any yet.

You really should to do a compression and leak down test to verify it's a head gasket. No point in blindly doing a head gasket job if it's not needed.

Do you have any white smoke coming out of the exhaust? Does it smell like coolant coming out of the exhaust? It is possible to only push coolant while in boost but your overflow tank would be full/over flowing when you checked it.

If you do end up doing the HG you'll be fine to reuse the timing belt components. Oil pump should be just fine - although if you're going to eliminate the balance shafts you might want to get a new one since you'll be pulling it apart anyway. Or just inspect the gears and make sure everything is within spec. Personally I'd go with a Mitsu mls gasket before a cometic. On the other hand, if you're not planning to go much bigger than a 16g you can save some $$ just sticking with a composite gasket and some ARPs.

Yes there is/was white smoke coming from the rear of the car when driving. My friend recognized it once. And it puts out a little white smoke at idle too. When driving however, I might want to bring up, its not an OVERWELMING ammount of white smoke, just a tad. The coolant is usually next to dry whenever checked if that says anything.

Mitsubishi MLS.. Hmm, might have to do that instead. And as far as going any higher, I don't think I will. On THIS bottom end anyways..

Thermostat, rad. cap, maybe a Mishimoto radiator, intake man. gasket, yeah; the works .

I have yet to look up what a leak down test is so I wouldn't know what you are talking about when you say that.

I forget if I mentioned but after putting the water in the coolant, if my friend and I were to stop at a gas station (as we did), to get coffee or whatever, the overflow would be puking out the coolant and water. I mean, you could hear is coming out like a stream from the tube.





I'm with everyone too on this. I don't want to redo stuff I'm already in there doing, you know? I want to make sure everythign need be replaced, is.

That is another thing I was thinking of asking. Some people have been saving my car is burning oil. I figured; piston rings. If I have the head off, I figured "Why not pop the pistons/rods out and get new rings? IDK, I thought it MIGHT be a good idea. Finding the rings however...well let's just say I haven't found any yet.





Yes there is/was white smoke coming from the rear of the car when driving. My friend recognized it once. And it puts out a little white smoke at idle too. When driving however, I might want to bring up, its not an OVERWELMING amount of white smoke, just a tad. The coolant is usually next to dry whenever checked if that says anything.

Mitsubishi MLS.. Hmm, might have to do that instead. And as far as going any higher, I don't think I will. On THIS bottom end anyways..

Question 1. Yes

Question 2. Replace

and good luck, once you get through that, you will know how to do what I would consider the toughest maintenance on these cars.

It shouldn't be too dificult since I can use my dad's lift at his bodyshop. That and I have a Haynes repair manual I can get my hands on. I should be ok. That and I have Tuners




Well I went to a friend of mine's house, and he did a compression test and a leak down test. The car passed both with what I would call an A+. This however doesn't solve my problem. He still told me replace the thermostat, and then rad. cap if anything. And he said, if that doesn't do it, rip the head off.

He told me the piston rings are good and the valves are seating well or something. . I forgot what he said.

 

[Cesarlcase]

Did you check to see if your fan was actually turning on since it's overheating at idle? Also, the bubbling in the overflow is usually headgaskets or bad radiator cap, rarely anything else would cause that symptom. You should try rad cap first, than do the tests and proceed from there.

 

[rEclipserGST]

Hold on a second, what is your budget again?? Because you posted a couple numbers. That being said, I believe it is going to cost you more than $350 to do a hg. To be honest, I spent a knot recently when doing mine, but I also replaced a ton of things while throwing DsmLite on it.

(ie: oil hoses, vacuum hoses, coolant hoses, BS belt, timing belt, A/C belt, PS belt, VC stainless steel bolts, fuel-air-oil filters, 90amp galant alternator, oil coolant, fuel filter feed line, boost leak test, along with many other misc gaskets. - cam seals, camshafts, oil pan, turbo, intake gaskets & etc.) Total is somewhere around 800 or exceeding I am sure. I have a box for all my recent receipts.

You could have a bad cap, bad thermostat, pinhole leak in your radiator, bad or leaking water pump. Do a compression test & a leak down test before you opt for the head gasket job. It's practically a mini rebuild, but well worth it i believe.

Search. Do the simple test that tell you A LOT. Then go from there.

 

[DSM IN MN]

Did you check to see if your fan was actually turning on since it's overheating at idle? Also, the bubbling in the overflow is usually headgaskets or bad radiator cap, rarely anything else would cause that symptom. You should try rad cap first, than do the tests and proceed from there.

We know the fans turn on. My friend and I checked the fans were working the night the car got us stuck on the side of the road.

Also, I did change the rad. cap and sure as hell the old one was bad. No more gurgling. When compairing the new and old rad. cap I could tell why I had not noticed it before.

We know the fans turn on. My friend and I checked the fans were working the night the car got us stuck on the side of the road.

Also, I did change the rad. cap and sure as hell the old one was bad. No more gurgling. When compairing the new and old rad. cap I could tell why I had not noticed it before.

Hold on a second, what is your budget again?? Because you posted a couple numbers. That being said, I believe it is going to cost you more than $350 to do a hg. To be honest, I spent a knot recently when doing mine, but I also replaced a ton of things while throwing DsmLite on it.

(ie: oil hoses, vacuum hoses, coolant hoses, BS belt, timing belt, A/C belt, PS belt, VC stainless steel bolts, fuel-air-oil filters, 90amp galant alternator, oil coolant, fuel filter feed line, boost leak test, along with many other misc gaskets. - cam seals, camshafts, oil pan, turbo, intake gaskets & etc.) Total is somewhere around 800 or exceeding I am sure. I have a box for all my recent receipts.

You could have a bad cap, bad thermostat, pinhole leak in your radiator, bad or leaking water pump. Do a compression test & a leak down test before you opt for the head gasket job. It's practically a mini rebuild, but well worth it i believe.

Search. Do the simple test that tell you A LOT. Then go from there.

$350 every two weeks. Read carefully. I do not plan on replacing EVERYTHING. But if needed, I am sure my dad will help to replace the non-performance parts the car may need.

Once again, if you would have read carefully, you would have seen I have a compression test done along with a leakdown test. The car passed; FAR better than I had thought it would.




It was a bad radiator cap.

This only means I need to take the car onto the highway and make sure it isn't getting hot while going 70mph for long distances. It doesn't change the fact that I am going to be taking the head off and semi building it though.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

It was a bad radiator cap.

There we go. Always double check the basics before you jump to terrible conclusions. Now how would you have felt to be in the middle of pulling the head off the block, touch the rad cap, and realize it was loose?

 

[DSM IN MN]

There we go. Always double check the basics before you jump to terrible conclusions. Now how would you have felt to be in the middle of pulling the head off the block, touch the rad cap, and realize it was loose?

Considering I'm still going to take the head off to put a metal head gasket on with ARPs and throw my HKS' in the head; so not too bad.

Thank you for the help everyone.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

Considering I'm still going to take the head off to put a metal head gasket on with ARPs and throw my HKS' in the head; so not too bad.

Bazzinga. Haha. Now, just to retain this - you know that a metal head gasket requires you to properly machine the head and block surfaces, correct? a Composite head gasket has proven itself over 30psi on plenty of occasions with ARPs.

 

[rEclipserGST]

I read enough to know you didn't post any actual results from those two test. Glad to hear it was just a radiator cap.

 

[DSM IN MN]

Bazzinga. Haha. Now, just to retain this - you know that a metal head gasket requires you to properly machine the head and block surfaces, correct? a Composite head gasket has proven itself over 30psi on plenty of occasions with ARPs.

Composite gasket as in...? The gasket the cars come with factory? Or the MLS Mitsu makes for an arm and a leg?

I read enough to know you didn't post any actual results from those two test. Glad to hear it was just a radiator cap.

Well I went to a friend of mine's house, and he did a compression test and a leak down test. The car passed both with what I would call an A+.

He told me the piston rings are good and the valves are seating well or something. . I forgot what he said.

I thought I was pretty clear... But yeah, me too!

 

[91mits]

the mls gaskets require the block and the head to be decked...if i was you id just use the oem mitsubishi gasket, i use it..no problems and with ARPs you should more then okay. glad to see you actually took advice on the forums and did the said tests before removing the head, sure saved you trouble didn't it...

 

[DSM IN MN]

the mls gaskets require the block and the head to be decked...if i was you id just use the oem mitsubishi gasket, i use it..no problems and with ARPs you should more then okay. glad to see you actually took advice on the forums and did the said tests before removing the head, sure saved you trouble didn't it...

I never intended to just rip the head off and throw parts on it to have other stuff cause problems down the road. It may have seemed that way because I have been so eager with buying parts for the POS, .

But yeah, I always take the info. from you guys here on the forum to heart before I just do stupid stuff.

Thanks again everybody, it was/is greatly appreciated.