Head noise from 1200-3000rpm...

[95TalonTsiAWDam]

After dropping in the 1G in the 95 Talon, started it up set all base items and dsmlink until she idled fine. My problem is this noise, which is fairly loud, that seems to come from the timing belt or the intake cam. With the hood up, I can open the throttle and this very load vibration noise starts just above idle and continues until about 2500-3000rpms before becoming perfectly quiet. It looks like the T-belt inbetween the cams is jumping up and down a tiny bit making this noise and then seems to smooth out and the higher rpms.
With the car off the belt feels faily tight to the touch between the gears.
Also, I did the T-belt (with b-shafts removed) following the guide and all setting were dead on before we put the engine in (rotated around after sitting and check the auto tensioner and it was within spec).

Any ideas to what causes this noise or how to fix it?

Thanks,
Michael

 

[jpbrazill]

After dropping in the 1G in the 95 Talon, started it up set all base items and dsmlink until she idled fine. My problem is this noise, which is fairly loud, that seems to come from the timing belt or the intake cam. With the hood up, I can open the throttle and this very load vibration noise starts just above idle and continues until about 2500-3000rpms before becoming perfectly quiet. It looks like the T-belt inbetween the cams is jumping up and down a tiny bit making this noise and then seems to smooth out and the higher rpms.
With the car off the belt feels faily tight to the touch between the gears.
Also, I did the T-belt (with b-shafts removed) following the guide and all setting were dead on before we put the engine in (rotated around after sitting and check the auto tensioner and it was within spec).

Any ideas to what causes this noise or how to fix it?

Thanks,
Michael

This sounds like a timing belt issue. Check the pivot arm that the timing belt tensioner pulley is bolted to. It should be just a 12mm bolt that holds the pivoting assembly to the block. You will have to remove your timing cover to diagnose.

J.P.

 

[95TalonTsiAWDam]

Checked arm...it is fine, belt is tensioned on the side down by pulley...all feels good down there.
Could it be a bad bearing or something in the cam? It is strange that it only makes noises through that certain RPM band.
I watched the T-belt again this morning...noticed it seems to have the same about of vibration throught the entire RPM till redline...seems to smooth out during different points, but the same amount of vertical movement in the through some of the upper RPM.

The sound is something like a baseball card in a bicycle wheel when the bike is moving pretty good...that is about the best way to describe the noise.

Thanks,
MM

 

[Blocking_Da_Sun]

You spun a rob bearing. Inspect the oil from the oil pan if it is dark with tiny metal shavings (maybe hard to see). Take the down dipe off and then the oil pan. Look inside the pan and see the metal shavings. Check for play in the rob caps/bearings. If you spun one bearing replace all. But see if the crankshaft is still good. If its bad you might need resurface it. To prevent this you need thicker oil/better cooling system. Good Luck I hope its nothing major let me know how it turns out

 

[95talon_in_ma]

Maybe you just cracked one of the covers when you put it back together. Now the belt hits it when it's running. At least take off all of the covers and see if the noise is still present.
It might be just harmonics cancelling each other at certain rpm's, as to why it goes in and out.

hopefully it's nothing more serious than that..

 

[95TalonTsiAWDam]

Alrighty...been in the middle of a move over the weekend...I have checked the belt...no marks.
Could it still be the rod bearings if they only make noise at lower RPMs? I would think if one was spun, then it would make noise all the way through the RPM band.
This noise has been since day one after I cranked it up. I got the engine from a guy that a trust would have told me if there was a serious problem, and he said he had no noise. He did however state that as he was lifting the engine out, he let the motor slip and it slid into the spring tower breaking the intake cam wheel in-half. I replaced that with a spair when I got the motor and didn't think much about it afterwords. Guess that jaring could have caused something to go haywire?
Any thoughts....

Thanks,
Michael

 

[95talon_in_ma]

If the noise is that bad, you should be able to detect at least where it's coming from.
When a bearing starts to go bad, it will make a faint knock. It usually starts in the upper rpm range. Eventually it will make the noise all the time.
Sometimes the noise goes away in the upper rpm's because if the bearing hasn't complete spun, it's just worn down to the brass. This makes the rod loose and knock against the crank but at a real high rpm it's "floating" since there is increased oil flow.

Jack up the car, put your ear to the oil pan and if it's louder, then drop the pan and check the bearings. Takes a few hours.
Otherwise take all of the timing covers off and check for loose items.
Like I mentioned earlier, before you mentioned the "drop" and broken cam gear, check the covers for broken cracked pieces. It's a tight fit and any movement will cause it to make noise.

good luck!

 

[andymoraitis]

Michael,

There's also an easy way to check for spun bearings (jeez it seems like I'm typing this way too often these days). In any event, rev the motor to the point at which the sound occurs and have a friend remove and replace spark plugs one at a time to take the load off of each cylinder individually. If the noise stops when a plug is pulled, it's a rod bearing. If not, I would suspect:

1. Timing components or auto tensioner as mentioned above
2. Crank pulley has separated (very common)
3. Rocker arm has fallen off
4. Lifter has collapsed.

Let us know what you find and if it turns out that during the sparkplug trick, the noise persists, I'd look at the entire timing assembly and crank pulley next before delving into the head.

Good luck!

Andy

 

[95talon_in_ma]

I agree with Andy. Though I had another scenario on my last purchase. It was a DSM with a blown motor, I decided get it to run in case the last owner mis-diagnosed it. I got it to start and just at idle it had a huge knock. I pulled each spark plug while it idled and it still knocked every time. (P.S. Touch your buddies arm when you grab that plug wire for a good laugh) I pulled the motor apart and sure enough two bearings had completely spun.
But the noise pretty much was there no matter what rpm.
That's the extreme case though...

fyi..I actually got it to run without a single piece of intake piping on the car.

Chances are since you said it was happening at lower rpm's and not higher, I would suspect it's probably not a bearing.

Did you hear the motor run before you bought it?

 

[95TalonTsiAWDam]

No I didn't get to hear the motor run before buying, but like I said, I trust the guy I bought it from and he said the motor was good, except for what was wrong with it (cracked intake cam gear, and really bad oil leak).
When I got the motor, I tore the oil pan off, cleaned it out and besides some cat litter (yeah I know...), and small pieces of ATV. There wasn't any metal residue or shavings. I also tore the oil pump off, scraped it good and put a new seal on...pulled the balance shafts...and replaced the cracked timing cover.
Now when I bought the car for $350 the 7-bolt that was in there actually had 3 spun bearings...I replaced the crank angle sensor to get it "running" and will never forget that noise......and like 95talon_in_ma said, it was making a god-aweful racket....man was it loud. The 7-bolt (with a hole in the side of the block) ran enough to get the car on a trailer and back off before I pulled it and saw what spun bearings looked liked for the first time. I ended up selling the 2G head for ~200 since it was good and T-25 turbo for $150.
Now I have dropped close to 5Gs in her with all kinda goodies and this damn noise is pissing me off.
andymoraitis....I will try the sparkplug trick this afternoon when my brother comes over to help me finish moving. I doubt I would be able to convince my wife to pull spark plug wires on a running engine....although a tingle from one would be funny....for a second

 

[95talon_in_ma]

Good luck with everything. Hopefully it's nothing serious.
(Always check those bearing if you have the pan off anyway... hindsight 20/20)
The cat litter was inside prior to you pulling the pan off? Somone's cat has no respect...
Car was only $350? Not bad. How much for the motor?

Just remember if it get's worse to just park it. It sucks, but it's better than putting a whole through the block... Maybe your bud will recant his previous assurance?

Hope it all works out.

 

[95TalonTsiAWDam]

Motor set me back $800...yeah those cats apparently can find there way into anything i guess. Had I known that I needed to check the bearings, I woulda, but this was my first engine swap/partial tear down.
Didn't get a chance to mess with it yesterday, finished moving at 2am this morning. Anywho, I'll have to wait till this weekend to give it a try, got to get back to work.

I'll resurrect this thread this weekend and post my results from the spark plug test.

Thanks for all the help so far,

Michael