Have you or someone you know tried these TIRES?

[wret]

So shouldn't the 18s have a faster time, since it has less tire wall and less tire weight (in theory)?

In theory, yes, but not in reality. A larger diameter, lower profile tire is not made simply by eliminating width from the sidewall. I did a little research on this, comparing tires of the same brand, width and overall diameter but for different wheel sizes. What information I found showed no consistant correlation between the weights and sizes. For some brands the larger tire with shorter sidewall is lighter, for some heavier, and for some about the same.

 

[skinnykenny84]

exactly



-You know, you are allowed to edit your own posts to fix errors.... -99gst_racer

 

[igs]

To prevent digging yourself a rep point hole you may never get out of, research a little before responding.

So you give me negative points because you have a poor grasp of english grammar? My point was with enough horsepower large wheels are not a significant detriment. My point had nothing to do with why there are large wheels to begin with, be it for looks or brakes or anything else.

 

[igs]

Wrong again. The discussion envolves tires that fit (reasonably) on a 2g DSM, all of which would be within about 5% range of radius, hardly enough to effect handling characteristics by itself.

Read my post again. I was talking about WIDTH not DIAMETER. And it's involves not envolves, affect not effect.

 

[FORMONTOYA]

Read my post again. I was talking about WIDTH not DIAMETER. And it's involves not envolves, affect not effect.

Damn!?! WTF !?!

 

[wret]

So you give me negative points because you have a poor grasp of english grammar? My point was with enough horsepower large wheels are not a significant detriment. My point had nothing to do with why there are large wheels to begin with, be it for looks or brakes or anything else.

I’m sure your points are relevant, just not here. We’re talking about the negative effect to traction using 225/35/19’s in a budget brand. Which supercar were you thinking of that uses this combo?

 

[suicidal2af]

So you give me negative points because you have a poor grasp of english grammar? My point was with enough horsepower large wheels are not a significant detriment. My point had nothing to do with why there are large wheels to begin with, be it for looks or brakes or anything else.

Nobody has said anything about it taking more power to turn the wheels here but you.

OP's question was regarding a good tire for little money that would NOT spin, but would stick. It's a well known fact that more sidewall will give greater forward traction, and eleventy billion people pointed this out. Your response was "NUH-UH YOU CAN DO BURNOUTS WITH A 19!" We all know this, no need to argue on that point.

Your original point DID have something to do with why high-end cars come with 19's. As a matter of fact, you're the one who brought it up. There's 2 reasons they do:

1) They have massive brakes
2) Big wheels look good, and when you're selling a car for $100,000+, you want to attract buyers.

Getting back on topic now, assuming equal rolling diameter and width:

a) Larger wheels with a smaller sidewall will give you better lateral traction due to less flex in the sidewall
b) Smaller wheels with a larger sidewall will give you better forward traction because of the extra sidewall

To give merit to this argument:

-Go to the dragstrip and watch every fast car. They have small wheels with large tires.
-Go to an autox course and watch every fast car. They will have large wheels with small sidewalls.

And on a side note, Ron's one of the most well-spoken people you'd ever meet, and has an excellent grasp of the english language, so two typos are hardly something to flame him over. The man does more macguyver shit than anyone on this board when it comes to custom parts. And jtoby is one of the more knowledgable, albeit rude sometimes, people on this forum when it comes to handling. If you're going to pick people to flame or argue, pick people who don't know what they're talking about, mmk?

 

[skinnykenny84]

He pretty much summed that up!

 

[toybreaker]

A little off topic, but there's a series of 15" wheels that will clear the two piston calipers. They came fitted to the 90's diamantes, in alloy and steel flavors.

I run the 15" alloys on my 92tsi for winter with a taller studded snow, 205/60/15, that has basically the same rolling diameter as a 205/55/16.

You street/strip guys may have better luck finding drag racing oriented tires in a 15"

As far as the originals posters original question, I would run the cheapest quality tire I could find. It's highly unlikely that you will wear the tire out evenly across the tread surface, because holding a correct wheel alignment is significantly more difficult with larger wheel fitments. And that alignment will require constant attention..

A lot of our customers have had pretty good service from the toyo's in the larger sizes.

Large wheels, when done tastefully, and with the correct supporting mods, can look cool and work well.

It's just like building more performance into a motor, just throwing boost at it indiscriminately will frag it quickly. But, building an entire package of supporting mods will let a monster motor live quite comfortably on the street.

It's the same with upping the wheel size. With the correct brake and suspension mods, you can get good service.

It costs a boatload of cash, and there's some compromises, but, for some people it's a big part of customising their ride. I've seen some set ups that actually looked really cool and worked adequately for the purpose of the vehicle owner.

I could have built a really nice motor for for the same money, but it works for them.

 

[DSMJim]

Just to add some info that's slightly irrelevant...

Lets look at slicks since they are a more pronounced tire more commonly used for drag racing which have larger detriment if used incorrectly vs. a street tire on the street. Easy for explanation purposes...

A 13" wheel is lighter than a 15" wheel. It takes less power to turn it therefore more hp to the wheels, pretty simple.

Slick are measured slightly different than normal street tires. They are measured in overall height from the ground (24.5" tall) and width 8" (which is like 245 or so) and then rim size like normal.

A slick lets say a 24.5 x 8 x 13 for the 13" wheel vs. a 24.5 x 8 x 15 for the 15" wheel. They both will provide the car the same gear with the 24.5" height. Both the same width and almost the same rim size. The 13" wheel setup has two advantages:

1) The wheel is lighter
2) There is more sidewall which increases the tires "bite" into the pavement

If you wanted more grip from the 13" wheels setup what would give you the most increase? Going from a 24.5 x 8 x 13 to 1) 24.5 x 10 x 13 or to 2) 26 x 8 x 13?

Tire 1 the 10 inch wide wheel will help with grip, but going taller to a 26" tire will provide way more bite into the ground. As you increase side wall the foot patch gets larger than simply going wider. Also once your rolling the wider 10" tire has way more rolling resistance down the track than the taller 26" does so it will slow you down more, however a taller tire provides more overall gear (top end) so if your running into 10's you'll need more gear so the taller tire will provide more grip and more top end which you will need is spades..

How does this translate over to street tires? A 19" wheel with a 245 x 40 x 19 will have less grip than a comparably sized 245 x 50 x 17 will because it has more side wall to bite, but overall the same height (about 26.7" tall) plus it has more weight than the 17" wheel does. The 19 looks better but is a worse performing wheel/tire setup overall. However on the street were talking about pretty small amounts.

If you were to road course you would want to pull the 19"s off and get 17" even if the tires were the same width you would be better off. The 17" would have more sidewall flex but only slightly and the extra weight of the 19" with the stiffer sidewall would not offset the lower weight of 17" wheels. If you look at hardcore auto-x they run 15" wheels on Miatas with RA-1's on them. Big sidewall, but still a faster combo than a 17 or 19" wheel with less siewall flex will have. 19"'s will fit a miata btw...

Larger wheels on expensive cars (Porsche) are ony for looks, the owners think for 100k you had better have 19"'s or your not getting your moneys worth. I own a Porsche and trust me, lots of wierd "don't-know-shit" owners of those cars.

 

[mavisky]

Also don't forget that if we're comparing say a 16" rim to a 19" rim with the same overall tire diameter you push weight to the outside of the rotational circle. The largest mass inside a given wheel is almost always at the actual rim itself and not the actual spokes. The larger the wheel the farther out that point moves and the more compact the weight of the tire is as well. Lets say both 16" and 19" wheel and tire combos both weigh 35 lbs.

If we measure out from center on the 16" wheel we will have maybe 8lbs in the first 6" and 10lbs in the last 2" of rim, then another 17lbs in the tire itself which is spread over let's say 4.5" on a 16" tire.

On a 19" wheel we have maybe 10lbs in the first 8" and 12lbs in the last 1.5", then another 13lbs in the last 2.75" of the tire from center.

So now we have two wheel combos, both weighing 35lbs, both 25" high. But if we look at the outer 4" of the combo you can see the 16" has less than 17lbs in that last section whereas the 19" has almost 25lbs in that same 5". Weight at the extremities of a rotational object will be harder to move than weight towards its mass. Picture the old swinging a bucket at arms length scenario here.

 

[mavisky]

Jim, don't forget about the guys running miata's on 15's with 40 series tires to shorten sidewall and gear ratio at the same time

 

[mavisky]

To the original poster:

400whp in a stroker motored fwd is going to be a problem to hook up unless you're willing to make some sacrifices. You can have all the traction you want in 4th gear, but nothing all season will get you any traction at wot in the first three. To be honest though even my 16" falken 215's still spin in second on my roughly 300hp 2.0 though so you may be SOL no matter what you buy.

 

[krummel45]

After doing some more research I have narrowed down my tire selection between these two tires:

Dunlop SP Sport Maxx
Kumho MX

Its between the Dunlopp Sport maxx and Kumho Ecsta mx 235x35x19
What do you think?

 

[wret]

Krummel45, since this forum is called "Handling Tech" not "Wheel and tire Tech," and since most of the best information in these threads comes from someone who is a bit of a purist, there is little tolerance for topics that are not performance oriented. Typically threads about 19" wheels and tires are moved or closed about as quickly as venting BOV's in the newbie forum. But since the can of worms is already open, let's see if we can keep this discussion on course and possibly help with your next wheel/tire decision. At this point, we need a little more information about your goals. Please refer to the sticky at the top of thread list and answer the questions.

 

[99gst_racer]

After doing some more research I have narrowed down my tire selection between these two tires:

Dunlop SP Sport Maxx
Kumho MX

Its between the Dunlopp Sport maxx and Kumho Ecsta mx 235x35x19
What do you think?

Here's a thread about the Ecsta MX's. It at least gives my opinion on that paticular tire.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219709

 

[kazzam]

I found these on tire rack and the price is really really cheap for 19" rims. I now have front wheel drive (update is needed on my profile) is traction is a big needed for me, but money is also a big need. (A poor dsmer thats a first) any way I did not know what you guys thought. There have been over 700,020 miles tested on these tires. The traction is 8.8 along if you would buy again. and for $111 a tire this sounds almost to good to be true.

Like I said traction is a must I have a stroker 400 whp car so I need to hook the F*ck up. Do you have any sugestions? I need great grip at a low price I know the best of both worlds.

By the way I love howq my rims look so I dont want to down size.

Hers the link.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes&place=0

Thanks

I have those tires on my 320 wheel hp fwd. The good thing about them is their wet traction. They rock in the rain. The best tire PERIOD i have ever driven in the rain on my DSM. They look good. The tread looks very manly..
They do float. WHen i drive, i feel like my car is floating on pillows, especialy after 70mph. And yes, they are scarry to take fast corners in.
Now that they are wearing down, they don't float as much, but deffinately wouldn't want to do high speed risky manuvers with them on.
They do hold awesome traction when going forward, scarry when stopping and driving fast. I wouldn't recommand them unless you are strapped for cash.

 

[krummel45]

Thanks for the input every one I decided on the Kumho escta mx's for my tire after research.