hahn big sidemount worth it?

[FORMONTOYA]

I use the HAHN side mount in my car along with their Super16G. It works great in the winter time, however, now that it's summer time....

I have opened up the splash guard for better airflow, but that isn't enough down in Houston where we see +100 degree days for 2-3 months. Just as an example, I recently went through a "state of tune" logging session....

96 degrees, normal summer day:

stop-n-go traffic in the afternoon on the way home from work....128 degree intake temps, on the roll doing 70-90 (staying with traffic)....94 degree intake temps. Pull into the store and shut the car off to get a soda, then come back out and fire the car up....147 degree intake temps.

It doesn't matter if you go with a front mount or side, you're not going to get much below ambient without water injection or something of the like. I'm only planning for 300WHP, but I will more than likely need WI in order to achieve this during the summer unless I want to spend major $$$.

WI may be considered a "band-aid", but for some of us, it's the only economical way to achieve even 300WHP somewhat reliably.

 

[Steve93Talon]

stop-n-go traffic in the afternoon on the way home from work....128 degree intake temps, on the roll doing 70-90 (staying with traffic)....94 degree intake temps. Pull into the store and shut the car off to get a soda, then come back out and fire the car up....147 degree intake temps.

You're talking about pre-turbo temps measured by the MAF. I'm talking about post-IC charge temps measured with an air temp gauge at the TB elbow.

 

[FORMONTOYA]

You're correct, but I'm just trying to get across that with just an IC whether it's a front or side mount that you will not get much below ambient temperature unless you go with water injection or a cooled IC of some sorts.

The summer time heat here in Houston is brutal, and on top of that we are compressing the air which in turn heats it up more. The IC can only do so much, and just being air cooled, not going to get too much below ambient. One good blast through 4th gear and you're sitting on the sidelines for a while without something more in the mix.

 

[daren_p]

I use the HAHN side mount in my car along with their Super16G. It works great in the winter time, however, now that it's summer time....

I have opened up the splash guard for better airflow, but that isn't enough down in Houston where we see +100 degree days for 2-3 months. Just as an example, I recently went through a "state of tune" logging session....

96 degrees, normal summer day:

stop-n-go traffic in the afternoon on the way home from work....128 degree intake temps, on the roll doing 70-90 (staying with traffic)....94 degree intake temps. Pull into the store and shut the car off to get a soda, then come back out and fire the car up....147 degree intake temps.

It doesn't matter if you go with a front mount or side, you're not going to get much below ambient without water injection or something of the like. I'm only planning for 300WHP, but I will more than likely need WI in order to achieve this during the summer unless I want to spend major $$$.

WI may be considered a "band-aid", but for some of us, it's the only economical way to achieve even 300WHP somewhat reliably.

I too had the spalsh cut out when I ran the HRC SMIC & just had grill craft over the area to protect the core from the tire throwing crap at it. As for the temps you mentioned, looks like you need to make a heat shield around the filter (as you are stateing MAF temps), and some ducting or a CAI if you aren't worried about the rain. My inlet temps are always right at ambient while moving & take alot longer to climb while sitting in traffic then they did before the heat shield.

 

[FORMONTOYA]

looks like you need to make a heat shield around the filter (as you are stateing MAF temps), and some ducting or a CAI if you aren't worried about the rain.

Funny you should mention that.....after the above logs my major push is to complete this:
http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194759

I would like to do this one:
http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195667
but the SMIC is in the way.

 

[daren_p]

Funny you should mention that.....after the above logs my major push is to complete this:
http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194759

I would like to do this one:
http://dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195667
but the SMIC is in the way.

I hadn't seen that second link before, thats basically what I did with the ducting but really like the idea of the fiberglass inlet cone (I just have mine sitting behind the opening), think that will be my next project. With that and my heat shield which is basically like the first link you posted (can be seen in gallery), like I said now see ambient temps & takes alot longer to heat up in traffic. I remember seeing sometimes as high as 135 or so in traffic last summer, I don't recall seeing anything over low 100's so far this summer & as soon as you start moving again it drops right back down.

 

[ShapeGSX]

The trouble with any sidemount is that the wheel is right behind it. The area in front of the wheel is an area of high air pressure. So it is hard to get any cool air to flow through the SMIC. Therefore they heatsoak quickly.

The other problem with these sidemounts is that they are thick, which isn't as effective a cooler as frontal area is. Once cool outside air hits the IC, it immediately starts heating up. By the time it gets to the back of the IC, it is warmer than it was at the front of the IC, lessening the cooling effect. So it is better to have a thinner IC with more frontal area (to a point) than a super thick one with very little frontal area.

You would probably have better luck with the hahn SMIC in front of the radiator because of the air pressure issue I mentioned before, but at that point you might as well get a real FMIC.

 

[RiceKiller_TSi]

Great points. I never even thought about the tire and air pressure problem.

 

[dalatinromeo]

The trouble with any sidemount is that the wheel is right behind it. The area in front of the wheel is an area of high air pressure. So it is hard to get any cool air to flow through the SMIC. Therefore they heatsoak quickly.

The other problem with these sidemounts is that they are thick, which isn't as effective a cooler as frontal area is. Once cool outside air hits the IC, it immediately starts heating up. By the time it gets to the back of the IC, it is warmer than it was at the front of the IC, lessening the cooling effect. So it is better to have a thinner IC with more frontal area (to a point) than a super thick one with very little frontal area.

You would probably have better luck with the hahn SMIC in front of the radiator because of the air pressure issue I mentioned before, but at that point you might as well get a real FMIC.

Good post!!

 

[talon96tsi]

I have a supra smic on my 91 tsi awd, hogged out big16g and custom 2.5 piping for the smic and i havnt heatsoaked it yet.

 

[RiceKiller_TSi]

You also live in Maryland.

 

[MyBeatGSX]

I'm liking that water/air setup.

How are was it to run all the lines? I'm assuming the icebox was just a large cooler in the trunk, because that's what I've seen done before. If that was left out however, even the water pipe routing would be pretty simple.

Do you have an pictures of the setup? The ones I've seen look like very large cans, and the piping just runs straight up from the turbo, through the can, to the TB... very short and simple.


And on another note...

Shape, do you think removing or opening up the splash guard might actually make airflow worse by exaggerating the effect of the tire? Maybe that splash guard is doing more than just keeping rocks off the IC...

 

[dsmsucks]

I have a supra smic on my 91 tsi awd, hogged out big16g and custom 2.5 piping for the smic and i havnt heatsoaked it yet.

Yeah, your location is idea for a smic. I have a supra unit to and dont heat soak even in 89 degree days
Hey guys what if somehow the front bumper was opened more to allow more air!! Would this help with coolin?

 

[my_precious]

If you have water injection, one major way you can easily make your temps a bit cooler is by putting ice in your water tank. Its an easy and simple way to keep the actual water cool. Another thing is getting an electric fan on your smic. But, for somebody that lives in the 95+ degree weather for months at a time, i think the simple solution is to get an fmic. An FMIC will also alow you to make a true CAI in the place where the side mount was. Another idea, though probably not super cheap (might just be worth it to get a fmic over this idea) is co2 cooler...I've seen a set up done to an evo, I thought it was quite retarded but the basic principle is that it sprays cold c02 gas over the intercooler in a mist type of way. This cools it fast, and c02 is cheap but i dont know how well this works or how pricey it is. But simply put, I agree that the only way to get your temps down is some sort of cooling other than air, because the air you are useing is still hot.