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GVR4 #431 - 740whp

Posted by Nate Crisman, Jan 28, 2013

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  1. Nate Crisman

    Nate Crisman Proven Member

    746
    6
    Joined Nov 26, 2008
    Blairstown, New Jersey
    GizmoVR4 and I went out to VTR (Vinny Ten Racing) in Long Island on saturday night to spin the rollers with #431. Our goal was not to set any specific power level, but to simply get the car back into quick 1/4mile shape after 2012's "waste of season" that ended abruptly with not a single decent pass. Nelson took the car about a month or so prior by himself, but wasn't able to make any pulls as there was a setup/tune issue with the car misfiring/bucking which we guess attributed to ethanol buildup on the injectors from fuel sitting stagnant all fall season after the track blowup. So Saturday was simply a night to get back on track, sort out our issues, and redeem ourselves. Ideally we wanted to leave with a car that will go mid 9's again at the 1/4 track.

    DSC_4139-L.jpg

    We are back on the T3 based FP3794 turbo (screw that GT4202). A Fresh 2.3L with the better Manley steel rods & Eagle 100mm crank. Standard 1g head w/ 1mm+ valves and GizmoVR4 intake manifold. Same HKS280* cams. PowerMist E98 fuel. FIC2150 injectors, DSMlink V3, yada yada. We are back to the "small" turbo that enabled 1.3 60' times with the restalled oem converter. The dry nitrous kit is still in the car, but we don't intend to use it anytime soon.

    Starting off with a conglomeration of previous tunes..frankly, I wasn't even sure the damn thing would run right. First clean wot pull on boost was like 530hp but only up to 7600rpm as the trans shifted itself into 4th. WTF :confused: This was with 30-31psi of boost, AFR was reasonable in the 11-12s, and with just water in the ic tank. Good start and the tune file was at least in the ballpark. LOTS of knock sensor activity starting during innitial spool up and not going away. Boost control has a big spike at spool up but V3's closed loop setup kept it steady after.

    Second pull was 592whp at 31psi @7800rpm and again the trans shifted itself. WTF again....then I figured it out....the trans shift controller was using the 1-2 shift RPM setting (7600) as the timer doesn't know we were manually going up to 3rd. DUH! This run was with basically the same tune, just ice water and pulling 5* of timing out across the board to see if the knock sensor activity went away. AFR was pretty fat past 6500rpm. knock pretty much gone now.

    IMG_4111-L.jpg

    We let the car cool with Nelson refilling the fuel/ice and me making significant changes to the speed density, timing, and boost control maps. Targeted 35psi boost, 12.0 AFR, and put 2* of timing back in. Car won't restart...dead battery (my fault, left key/fan/ic pump on while we screwed around for too long).

    Third pull...WTF...car is bucking and misfiring as it comes up on boost. ABORT! we brainstorm and decide to go back to the "run2 tune file" thinking maybe something in the jumpstart/dead battery might have corrupted the ecu tune upload?? wild guess

    Fourth pull.... :mad: same sh**...popping and farting on boost. Pull plugs...don't look bad....change anyway for new set gapped to .014

    Fifth pull. :banghead: Change the COP ignition for a "tried and true" stock coil w/ magnecor wires.

    Sixth pull..... :banghead: Pull injectors...looking for curmudgeon buildup. we clean and blow out injectors, pretty much chalking up the issue to fate and that our night was over. Im insisting it's not in the tune/ecu. We are getting very frustrated.

    Seventh pull...Mother F'r. still popping and farting as it comes up on boost. Now I get pissed and start comparing logs and trying to figure this out. Dawns on me...."son of a bi***"...."it's compressor surge". We have to get the rpm past that 3800rpm/18psi spot where the map sensor/IDC/Airflow starts getting jittery in the logs.

    8th pull...I tell nelson to try bringing the rpm up in 2nd gear to like 5000+, shift to 3rd and whack the throttle open. Seems to run clean but someone forgot to push the record button on the dyno control.

    9th pull..... up to 8600rpm. boost steady 35.5psi, AFR averaged 12.0, max timing 17*, AIT 46->68*F it made 665whp. powerband is "FATTY" IMHO. It breaks 500hp down at like 5800rpm and holds 600+ from about 7400 up to 8600. very flat and broad. Im impressed and Nelson is more than pleased!

    IMG_4113-L.jpg

    Last pull: 740awhp. up to 8600rpm again. Boost set to 40psi. Max timing 18*, AFR about the same..the SD map needs some fine tuning, but today wasn't the day for that. same "fatty" power band just more of it (breaks 500hp as early as 5200rpm on this run). Little bit of wheel spin on the dyno as we left little piles of black dust behind each roller.

    [image]http://nathancrisman.smugmug.com/Cars/Nelson-GVR4-431/i-JQLp6zj/0/XL/651-XL.jpg[/image]

    So Saturday was a total success and we learned a ton in the process. Seems like making pulls from low rpm in 3rd gear is just too much engine load, the turbo spools too early, with the compressor surge screwing up the ECU's fuel deliver causing misfires. I was actually a little annoyed at myself for not thinking of it earlier, as my red 1g will do the same thing if you try to do a 3rd gear pull from low rpm (stock 2.0 w/ FP3052). The logs from the earlier clean pulls show the surge too, Im not sure why it was able to recover from it and pull through the surge. oh well, now we know.

    We are guesstimating that this power is right about where we left off at in fall of 2011 when the car ran the 9.3@146 at Etown, maybe just a little shy. Expecting to hit the track in early spring and hopefully be right there in the mid 9's again so the NHRA lisc can be finished. Then we'll work on fine tuning, raising the boost up to about 45psi, and extracting all the power we can from this FP3794. We want to see an 8.99 this season too (but realistically are resolved to the Blue GVR4 from NZ possibly beating us to it and having the hardware to go quicker/faster than our setup can muster even under perfect circumstances).

    This kind of powerband is essential to making the car ET fast with the Automagic tranny, as last year with the GT4202 was just a disaster trying to get the car to 60' and 330' well. Drag racing is all about the first half, so going back to the small turbo should significantly help.

    [ame=http://youtu.be/G1GAN0UOvz8]GVR4 431 dyno 740whp - YouTube[/ame]


    Thread copy/pasted off my account on GVR4 forum, it was more written for the guys that are familier with the car.
     

    Attached Files:

    698  0

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    10.626 @ 128.800 · 1G DSM
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  2. richard33

    richard33 Proven Member

    844
    15
    Joined Oct 25, 2009
    Ft Lauderdale, Florida
    Pretty neat it's funny you had to downsize in order to get the car down the track. Do you use the nitrous to get the car on the converter? You guys should try spraying through the 60ft if its not leaving but if you are cutting 1.3s that should be good for your 8sec pass. Good luck and keep us updated.
     

    3K  0

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    9.752 @ 146.150 · 2G DSM
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  3. Nate Crisman

    Nate Crisman Proven Member

    746
    6
    Joined Nov 26, 2008
    Blairstown, New Jersey
    Last season we had 100hp of dry nitrous running on the converter and through till the 1-2 shift with a GT4202 turbo & devided t4 manifold. It wouldn't 60' better than about 1.55, wouldn't make more than 40 psi boost until second gear.
     

    698  0

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    10.626 @ 128.800 · 1G DSM
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  4. richard33

    richard33 Proven Member

    844
    15
    Joined Oct 25, 2009
    Ft Lauderdale, Florida
    ya that's no good. Im sure the 67mm will get it done. Was it a 2.3L motor when you head the 4202 on? I bet if you swapped cams to K272s it would react a lot different 60ft wise.
     

    3K  0

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    9.752 @ 146.150 · 2G DSM
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  5. Nate Crisman

    Nate Crisman Proven Member

    746
    6
    Joined Nov 26, 2008
    Blairstown, New Jersey
    Yup..same compression, displacement, cams, and fuel. The gt42 was just a dog for us, gave up too much bottom power compared to what minimal gains we saw up top. Granted our cam/head/intake/tune/boost level might have been more of a factor in not seeing an insane power gain on the bigger turbo, but it just seemed a better choice to go back to the 37r which combo'd nearly perfect with the overall setup.

    Not to mention it is mph limited to about 150mph anyway. We can't fit 28" tires on a gvr4 with the oem body cladding. I don't want to run the stroker crank past 9800rpm. We can't use 4th gear. Going to a looser converter to help the 42r on the 60' would exacerbate the rpm/mph problem up top.
     

    698  0

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    10.626 @ 128.800 · 1G DSM
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  6. bigzgvr4

    bigzgvr4 Probationary Member

    3
    0
    Joined Jan 19, 2009
    deer park, New York
    @natecrimson who tuned the car for you i am asking because i got burnt really bad by TOP LEVEL PERFORMANCE who also uses the same dyno my vr4 was in that shop since spetember 2012 after i retired from the ARMY and just 3 days ago i had to TOW my Car back and when i droped it their i drove my car
     
  7. Nate Crisman

    Nate Crisman Proven Member

    746
    6
    Joined Nov 26, 2008
    Blairstown, New Jersey
    I do the setup and tuning, but it is not my car... Nelson Sousa is the owner & driver. I'm more like the crew chief.
     

    698  0

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    10.626 @ 128.800 · 1G DSM
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  8. bigzgvr4

    bigzgvr4 Probationary Member

    3
    0
    Joined Jan 19, 2009
    deer park, New York
    thanks man is their any place reputable in longisland that you know work on dsms or vr4
    besides
    toplevel,e-spec,jwf fabrication,bill(holeshot),racing results, pampena motorsports,

    toP LEVEL got me for 8112.00 dollars and my car is NOT RUNNING :cry:
     
  9. ceedawg

    ceedawg Supporting Member

    1,368
    219
    Joined Jun 2, 2004
    laurelton, New York
    Try Mike (lukecrankwalker) he's out there near Deer park he has a clean 8 to 9 sec 2g. Pm me I will give you his number. Or you could take the car to Ct, to Raif Racing. Raif has two 9 sec cars and he's a very honest guy,but he is a distance away. These guys are my two recommendations.
     
    ceedawg

    2K  0

    1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    manual · 2G DSM
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  10. bigzgvr4

    bigzgvr4 Probationary Member

    3
    0
    Joined Jan 19, 2009
    deer park, New York
    thanks man
    i sent you pm for mike
     
  11. DSMsOwnYourV8

    DSMsOwnYourV8 Proven Member

    315
    0
    Joined Jan 4, 2008
    Denver, Colorado
    Such a sic car. Really nice build and such a sleeper of a car outside the DSM Community, especially at that HP.
     

    396  0

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    12.825 @ 113.590 · 2G DSM
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  12. gimmie11s

    gimmie11s Proven Member

    180
    11
    Joined Jul 11, 2003
    So Cal., California
    NICE car...

    love me some GVR4s.... badass
     

    326  1

    1992 Plymouth Laser RS Turbo AWD
    awd · manual · 1G DSM
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  13. Nate Crisman

    Nate Crisman Proven Member

    746
    6
    Joined Nov 26, 2008
    Blairstown, New Jersey
    Planning to make passes with #431 on Wednesday July 10th at Island Dragway . Hopefully it goes smooth with the car ending up back in the mid 9's like we had in 2011
     

    698  0

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    10.626 @ 128.800 · 1G DSM
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