packinkimber45
15+ Year Contributor
- 378
- 3
- May 26, 2006
-
Boise,
Idaho
Hello everyone. I got my shortblock back from the machine shop this week with the crank, rods, pistons and rings installed in the block already. I am going to start finishing up my block this weekend. I will be doing my front case/oil pump and water pump tomorrow and head also. I have a few questions I need answered. Please bare with me, this first time doing assembly on my motor.
1. I know 30wt motor oil is recommended for torquing fasteners (keep in mind I am only talking in regards to my oil pump gear cover, front case and water pump). Since we are not talking about engine internal fasteners, do I install the bolts from oil pump gear cover to front case, front case to block, and water pump dry or a small amount of motor oil on the threads so I get good accurate torque values?
2. Seals in the front case... I have a brand new oem front case that already has the seals installed (front main seal for example). Do I take those seals out and install with any kind of sealant or or anything on them, and then reinstall?
3. Do I need to get new guide pins/bushings for the front case or using my old ones ok?
4. When my machinist decked my block and resurfaced my head he asked me if I was going to run composite hg or mls... unfortunately at the time I was going back and forth which one I wanted to use since I was worried about sealing of mls gaskets. So in that case, my machinist said he did the finish smoothness right in between. Not mirror finish, but not too rough I guess so I could go either way. I dont know if I should run the oem mitsu mls I bought or use a composite one. Looking at the surfaces they are shiny but I see lines that I can feel with my finger nails.
The surfaces are a little dirty from when I picked them up.
Here is the finish on the block
and the head
These last two pictures shows the lines I am talking about that I can feel with my finger nails. These same texture and lines are of the same on my block surface.
Am I okay to run the oem mitsu mls, or should I use oem mitsu composite? Also part of the reason it was hard to determine which route I was going to go was my mahle pistons are 9:1. I wanted to use the mls to lower my compression to avoid any issues with knock, due to the 1g timing maps being agressive for the higher compression. According to the compression sheet he gave me, with the composite hg I will be at 8.9:1.
5. HG install... use copper spray for both composite or mls? Spray both sides of the gasket? I have heard with cometic mls copper spray is bad. How about the oem mitsu mls? Plus how much do I spray the gaskets with? Any way I should prep the surfaces since they are a little dirty? How do I clean the surfaces to make sure all contaminants are off. Keep in mind I already have the pistons in the bore.
6. Am I okay to coat the cylinder walls with wd 40, so when I have to turn the crank it does not scratch up the walls? Do I spray it onto the walls or spray onto a blue shop paper towel and wipe onto walls? Make sure piston tops dont have any wd on them?
7. When I pulled the head, the cams were still in place. So when I took the cams out the cam gears were still on them. Off course I couldnt get them off after that since the freakin bolts are so damn tight! My question is... the seals off course are still on the cams since the cam sprocket never came off. Is it okay for me to install the cams back that way? Will I damage the seals when I place them back in and install the cam caps?
8. My injectors are still in the fuel rail since I took them off the head. The car has not ran for over 2 years but the injectors have been in the head since. I just took them off about a week ago. Do I need to buy new o rings and insulators for them? Should I take the injectors off the fuel rail and clean them and the fuel rail too? How do I clean them?
9. Should I buy a new oil pick up tube/screen? Should I just clean it? How would I clean them? Brake cleaner?
10. Lastly... My machinist talked to Mahle about what gap the piston rings should be at. Based on 20-25 lbs of boost daily driven he was told to gap the piston rings to 17. According to the instructions on the pistons it sais to gap the top rings larger than the bottom rings. From what I have read it is a good idea to gap the top smaller then the bottom ring to prevent flutter and also to prevent the the second ring ends from touching and butting against each other for safety measure. When I picked up my motor I asked my machinist what he ended up gapping the 2nd rings to. He said they were all already at 17 (top and bottom) and he didnt have to file fit them. He told me he left the bottom the same gap as the top... Is this ok? Should I take the pistons out and open up the gap on the bottom ones? I called mahle to confirm this and the tech there said I should be ok. I dont know what to do on this matter. I know they know their pistons and rings better than anybody but I am not sure if I should run them the way they are gapped. The tech didnt really give me any explanation other than having to deal with emmissions and the rings being good enough to controll oil. What should I do? I am not questioning my machinists skill, competency or credibility or anything. I just didnt get a lot of good explanation from him. Everytime I tried to get technical with my questions I got shot down everytime. I felt like an idiot dealing with the machine shop. Regardless the machine work looked fabulous.
Sorry for the long thread, I am really unfamiliar with all these process. I just want to make sure I do things right the first time. Thanks for your time looking and answering my questions.
By the way, just to add what I had done. I got the block bored/honed .020 over with a torque plate, cleaned, decked .003. Head was resurfaced .002. 2 intake valves did not pass vaccuum test so they were refaced. Now they passed the vaccuum test. Brand new oem mitsu crankshaft, 9:1 Mahle forged pistons and rings, manley h beam rods. New oem mitsu front case, oil pump gears, water pump. I already have a new oem mitsu mls and reusing arp standard head studs.
1. I know 30wt motor oil is recommended for torquing fasteners (keep in mind I am only talking in regards to my oil pump gear cover, front case and water pump). Since we are not talking about engine internal fasteners, do I install the bolts from oil pump gear cover to front case, front case to block, and water pump dry or a small amount of motor oil on the threads so I get good accurate torque values?
2. Seals in the front case... I have a brand new oem front case that already has the seals installed (front main seal for example). Do I take those seals out and install with any kind of sealant or or anything on them, and then reinstall?
3. Do I need to get new guide pins/bushings for the front case or using my old ones ok?
4. When my machinist decked my block and resurfaced my head he asked me if I was going to run composite hg or mls... unfortunately at the time I was going back and forth which one I wanted to use since I was worried about sealing of mls gaskets. So in that case, my machinist said he did the finish smoothness right in between. Not mirror finish, but not too rough I guess so I could go either way. I dont know if I should run the oem mitsu mls I bought or use a composite one. Looking at the surfaces they are shiny but I see lines that I can feel with my finger nails.
The surfaces are a little dirty from when I picked them up.
Here is the finish on the block
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and the head
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These last two pictures shows the lines I am talking about that I can feel with my finger nails. These same texture and lines are of the same on my block surface.
You must be logged in to view this image or video.
You must be logged in to view this image or video.
Am I okay to run the oem mitsu mls, or should I use oem mitsu composite? Also part of the reason it was hard to determine which route I was going to go was my mahle pistons are 9:1. I wanted to use the mls to lower my compression to avoid any issues with knock, due to the 1g timing maps being agressive for the higher compression. According to the compression sheet he gave me, with the composite hg I will be at 8.9:1.
5. HG install... use copper spray for both composite or mls? Spray both sides of the gasket? I have heard with cometic mls copper spray is bad. How about the oem mitsu mls? Plus how much do I spray the gaskets with? Any way I should prep the surfaces since they are a little dirty? How do I clean the surfaces to make sure all contaminants are off. Keep in mind I already have the pistons in the bore.
6. Am I okay to coat the cylinder walls with wd 40, so when I have to turn the crank it does not scratch up the walls? Do I spray it onto the walls or spray onto a blue shop paper towel and wipe onto walls? Make sure piston tops dont have any wd on them?
7. When I pulled the head, the cams were still in place. So when I took the cams out the cam gears were still on them. Off course I couldnt get them off after that since the freakin bolts are so damn tight! My question is... the seals off course are still on the cams since the cam sprocket never came off. Is it okay for me to install the cams back that way? Will I damage the seals when I place them back in and install the cam caps?
8. My injectors are still in the fuel rail since I took them off the head. The car has not ran for over 2 years but the injectors have been in the head since. I just took them off about a week ago. Do I need to buy new o rings and insulators for them? Should I take the injectors off the fuel rail and clean them and the fuel rail too? How do I clean them?
9. Should I buy a new oil pick up tube/screen? Should I just clean it? How would I clean them? Brake cleaner?
10. Lastly... My machinist talked to Mahle about what gap the piston rings should be at. Based on 20-25 lbs of boost daily driven he was told to gap the piston rings to 17. According to the instructions on the pistons it sais to gap the top rings larger than the bottom rings. From what I have read it is a good idea to gap the top smaller then the bottom ring to prevent flutter and also to prevent the the second ring ends from touching and butting against each other for safety measure. When I picked up my motor I asked my machinist what he ended up gapping the 2nd rings to. He said they were all already at 17 (top and bottom) and he didnt have to file fit them. He told me he left the bottom the same gap as the top... Is this ok? Should I take the pistons out and open up the gap on the bottom ones? I called mahle to confirm this and the tech there said I should be ok. I dont know what to do on this matter. I know they know their pistons and rings better than anybody but I am not sure if I should run them the way they are gapped. The tech didnt really give me any explanation other than having to deal with emmissions and the rings being good enough to controll oil. What should I do? I am not questioning my machinists skill, competency or credibility or anything. I just didnt get a lot of good explanation from him. Everytime I tried to get technical with my questions I got shot down everytime. I felt like an idiot dealing with the machine shop. Regardless the machine work looked fabulous.
Sorry for the long thread, I am really unfamiliar with all these process. I just want to make sure I do things right the first time. Thanks for your time looking and answering my questions.
By the way, just to add what I had done. I got the block bored/honed .020 over with a torque plate, cleaned, decked .003. Head was resurfaced .002. 2 intake valves did not pass vaccuum test so they were refaced. Now they passed the vaccuum test. Brand new oem mitsu crankshaft, 9:1 Mahle forged pistons and rings, manley h beam rods. New oem mitsu front case, oil pump gears, water pump. I already have a new oem mitsu mls and reusing arp standard head studs.
