gm v6 into a 1g awd dsm

[jonnymick]

for all of you who would rather just say its not feasible rather than give it a chance to be proven right or wrong size-wise can just go about perfectly happily ignoring me, i didnt ask for peoples opinions on whether they liked the idea or the engine or etc... i asked for help-if your not willing to help why waste your time with me by running me down? im positive with the right cam, that this car can achieve 30mpg highway with a 3400, the reason i want to do this is because i have had many 60* v6's and ive loved nearly every one, its what i know the most about & its what ive known to be the most reliable, even when you start modding them & etc... they dont become constant projects, and i love that-they get great mileage & have a good amount of torque for normal driving). im sorry if the thought of me not liking the 4g63 that much bothers you-but to each his own, why run me down?

my biggest concerns are:

1. will it fit physically with a minimal amount of modification to engine bay?

2. what could be done about the transmission control/interaction with the motor/what would NEED to be done?

3. could an adaptor be used to bolt the flywheel to the 3400, or is that just a terrible ass idea & i need to have a custom flywheel made?

 

[stormwolf1972]

i do remember that my old 3.4 firebird was always being mistaken for a V8...that exhaust sound was sweet.....like i said.....just check to see if it will even fit...pm me and i can give you a great V6 forum that may be able to help some too

 

[MrBoxx]

The 3100/3400 GM engines are notorious for intake manifold gasket leaks that lead to cracked heads and spun rod bearings. Be sure the engine he's selling you so cheap actually runs, and if it does be sure to change the intake manifold gasket before you ever fire the engine. FelPro makes a new all-metal upgraded gasket to replace the plastic OEM GM gasket; they're sold as a kit and wear the "MS9800xT" part number (x = 1, 2, 3, etc. depending on your engine's year and displacement).

Quoted for Truth. At my shop, about 3 out of every 10 GM 3.X engines that come in have intake manifold gasket failure.

My question is, why bother with going through with this questionable swap when you can buy and build a 4g63 (which you know fits) for less hassle and probably less money? If you're doing it to be different, great. But a decent 4g63 can still get 30mpg and make gobs of power.

 

[dsmdan83]

You hate working on cars? Buy a camry or civic. I would not get any type of sports car. The purpose behind these cars is to drive hard. So stuff will break or wear out, it's a fact. Number reason why DSM's get a bad rep is cause most are too lazy to do the Maintaince to keep them running.
1: I would get the car fix it up stock and sell it to someone how would care for it.

You want AWD?
You want GM Powertrain? ( see where I'm going with this)

2:Take your funds from your sell and buy a Cyclone / Typhoon.
3: If this is not an option, go with something to get you from point a 2 b and buy a video game consloe of your choice.

 

[cheap90gsx]

not to bash the thread or anything but this idea is RETARDED.

 

[welfle18]

I just dont think that you are going to be able to use the awd with the engine you plan on putting in there without extreme moddifications. Maybe find a GM transmission that will mate with the motor thats awd if thats even possible. With the 4G63 there is hardly any room to work I could only imagine how much less room that there is going to be with the 3400. You need to measure the engine bay and get some actual numbers first. Maybe for comparison numbers measure an engine bay with the 3400 in it. That would get you started. From there you would have a better idea of what kind of project you are getting yourself into.

 

[UGOT8UP]

This is one of those project's that will never materilize. Going to remove one of Mitsu's best engine's for one of GM's WORST engine's.

Bell housing-1g+
Flywheel-----$who know's
exaust-------$150+
engine mount's-$150+
some kind of acc drive-$300
grafting a GM harness with mitsu harness-priceless
months upon months doing the swap--WOW

NEW 4G63T with rebuilt head and turbo-$3G
and it will run trouble free for as long as you own the car!!!

 

[dsm-onster]

for all of you who would rather just say its not feasible rather than give it a chance to be proven right or wrong size-wise can just go about perfectly happily ignoring me, i didnt ask for peoples opinions on whether they liked the idea or the engine or etc... i asked for help-if your not willing to help why waste your time with me by running me down? im positive with the right cam, that this car can achieve 30mpg highway with a 3400, the reason i want to do this is because i have had many 60* v6's and ive loved nearly every one, its what i know the most about & its what ive known to be the most reliable, even when you start modding them & etc... they dont become constant projects, and i love that-they get great mileage & have a good amount of torque for normal driving). im sorry if the thought of me not liking the 4g63 that much bothers you-but to each his own, why run me down?

Convert your GN to AWD. You will spend the same time and it will weigh nearly the same. You never answered what is so unreliable about the 4g63??? What are these guys always working on??? As I was saying, you do know that the DSM is infamous for having a poorly-engineered drivetrain (which is debatable), not an unreliable engine.

Do this! and post your progress and results. But say "just cause I want to". Your reasoning for doing this is why we apparently are at arms. Your reason in unfounded.

 

[PieEyedPiper]

Statistically, doesn't a swapped car (and awkward swap at that) usually need twice as much maintenance, work and cause 3 times as many headaches as an unmolested vehicle?

That would defeat the entire goal of this project.

 

[jonnymick]

im not going to argue with these people that want to try and pursuade me otherwise-unless i 100% for sure find out that the engine wont fit, then i intend to do it. im really worried about its interaction with the trans, what do you guys think?

p.s. from this point on, if your not willing to help or be constructive about this in some form (even if that form is proof that this engine will not fit in the enginebay the way id like it to)-then i will just ignore the negative comments. i dont have the time or energy to argue with 50 people who want to bash me for my idea, i will just ignore those comments. and i stated earlier about getting the gaskets changed, because these engines are bulletproof once you do a complete topend gasket swap/match. and yes i realize the 4g63 would be TONS cheaper & MUCH easier, but it wouldnt be original, it wouldnt be v6 like i want, and it wouldnt be gm like i want it to be. i appreciate those of you just trying to save me some money, but if i can do it-id be the only one out there with a vehicle setup like this, to me thats worth it-need i say more? also, i am NOT just doing this for power, unless i go turbo (which id like to eventually but doubt i will) then when it comes to power i will just have to deal with mild power. i had a vtec honda that weighed 3000 lbs & had 145 hp & i was more than happy with how fast that car was, but because of the vtec & alternate cam profile it would eat gas like a damn 4.3 when i ran it hard. ive had several late 90's luminas that weigh 3350 and on highway it had plenty of power & got 30mpg when driven nice (with no tune, mods, nothing) and would get like 26 when i was running the crap out of it. that car had 200k miles and had a gasket swap early on, and i never had a problem with it a day in my life. with a proper tune for mpg and maybe a can for highway mpg im sure i can be VERY happy with this vehicle. enough said.

also, if youve never had one of these engines thats been gasket swapped-you really cant feed me this garbage about it being one of gms worst engines, because thats just wrong, and if you think its right, you should contact someone thats had a few of them. go on over to the 60*v6 forums and tell them that the non-dohc is one of gms worst engines, youll get nothing but laughs & people ripping on you much like many people on here are doing to me (i say non dohc because the lq1 is a 60* & its just as high tech/performance oriented as the 4g63, but reliability/ease of working on one isnt half as good). i can say these things because ive owned 3 alum head 3.1s, 1 ironhead 3.1, 1 aluminum head 2.8, 1 ironhead 2.8, 2 3100's, 1 lq1, and i have a buddy that has a 3400 in a trans sport that has been great for him (i wish i could say the same for the auto trans)-i know plenty well what im getting myself into this engine, ive had plenty of them & ive loved every one of them except for the ironhead 3.1 which was gutless & got horrible gas mileage because it had something wrong with it that i never did figure out, i ended up getting rid of that one because there were too many reasons not to keep it.

 

[jonnymick]

heres my reason-because i want an awd dsm with a gm v6----theres a statement. im not going to argue with people, im not going to comment on what they say, if you put a negative comment in this thread thats not helping in any way shape or form, you -will- be ignored.

 

[jonnymick]

and dsm-onster, why is this drivetrain known to be faulty (the 5 speed)-ive never heard anything negative about the 1g 5 speed awds drivetrain up to 300hp or more, which i will not be putting to it... but please, by all means, if theres something seriously flawed with it please let me know, because ive always been under the impression that these drivetrains are pretty good as far as 90's go.

 

[olmytsi]

Just do it!!!!!!!! But usually if you have to ask, you can't do it.

 

[laserspeeddemon]

There is no way a 3400 would fit. If you look at the clearance of the Timing Belt side, there is about 2 inches in some areas. The 3400 V6 is longer the the 4G63 but quite a bit. You also need a custom adapter plate, which would also take away from the 2 inch play room you have.

Don't believe me? Go measure it

 

[Black91TSiAWD]

like LSD said. This -WILL- not work.

fuggetaboutit

 

[UGOT8UP]

I don't see how that you thing that is a bullet proof engine , I am a GM silver tech and a ASE master tech and I am here to tell you if it was not for the 3.4L me and my family would have starved Ask anybody who work's for GM and ask them what the worst engine is that GM has produced in recent year's...I hate to tell you that cast pistons and crank are -NOT- bullet proof, send 8psi through that engine and see what happen's!!!

And if I am not mistaken the 3.4 is shorter than the 4G63....The engine will fit, but your gonna have one hell of a time doing this...If you can get an adapter plate made to mate the 3.4 to the 4G63 bellhousing for a moderate price than I would say to go ahead, the flywheel is gonna have to be a frankenstein IE:Camaro manual Flywheel with a GT-40 disk and a lambo pressure plate????

The rest of it is going to be up to your frabrication skill's and amout of time your going to have in it, will it be a upgrade IDK will it be cool HELL YEAH, just know what your getting into before you do it, plan everything out and estamate your price and double it!! I've done some odd swap's and it's alot more expensive than you expect, FD with a LS1/T56, GN turbo V6 in a 74 240Z my fave one I've done and took over 6 month's doing that swap, It took only 6 week's for the FD because there was alot of aftermarket support for the swap.

P.S. Beer is also part of the budget got to pay your friend's with something.

 

[gsxtasy]

.... will it be a upgrade IDK will it be cool HELL YEAH...

I disagree.

If I saw that swap done, I would not go "HELL YEAH MAN! THATS BADASS!". I would say.."why, oh why?"

 

[UGOT8UP]

A V6 AWD DSM would be pretty cool bro, not the 3.4 , 3.8SC just my opinion

 

[Marc91GSX]

no im not talking about the dohc lq1-thats an excellent engine from a performance standpoint like the 4g63 but also is not nearly as reliable as the much less hp variants & i dont want that. also i specifically stated that i want to use the dsm awd platform because i want the awd. there is absolutely no point in trying to talk me out of it-i -will- find out if it will fit, and if it will fit then i -will- put one in it. im ONLY looking for help with this potential project-not help deciding on a different one.

First off, I like the fact that you really want to try something different even if I do not agree with your reasons. If you want something reliable and cheap that will get good gas mileage but retain the AWD then put a fresh 4g63t back into it. Keep everything stock and drive it reasonably and you will have no problems with it. I think you are doing this because you want the attention and I promise the attention will not be good no matter where you go with it because you will always get the "Why the #### would you make a car slower to be different" question.

To answer your question about fitment. No it will not fit without extensive fabrication. You will need to have a custom made bellhousing adaptor to fit the 3.4 to the DSM transmission. Then you will also need to remove the driverside strut tower to fit the 3.4l because it is approximately 2 inches longer than the 4g63 (I did not measure this but when I had my 4g out for rebuild the block sat next to a 3.1 that I was rebuilding which gave me an idea of the length). That doesn't seem like alot until you have set the timing on an engine with it in the firewall. Your water pump pulley will be sitting inside where the Strut tower currently resides. You are also going to have fitment issues with the alternator because it will be hitting your brake master cylinder although that is a simple fix and if you have mastered the other problems then it should not be a problem.

Lastly, if you are so set on having a V6 in the car then why not just put a sticker on it an lie, most of the people that would think that is cool don't know enough about these cars to know the difference anyways.

 

[GofaST4life]

this is pointless talk...

Do some research on the 4g63 please and realize that the 4g63 is WAY BETTER than the 3.4...
Having owned and modified both, i know.

 

[jonnymick]

im not worried about accessories-if i have to relocate damn near every one of them, i will. also i have a machinist buddy that said if i can make it fit & figure out the rest, that hed be happy to fab me up a trans adapter plate on the cheap as long as i give him credit if the project ever gets finished.

 

[knochgoon24]

I just can't see how you think this car will be more reliable in the end than one with the 4g63 still in it. Dreams are dreams.

And your friends always working on their DSMs, sure they aren't just doing maintenance? What can you expect from a 150,000 mile turbocharged car? Most people buy them used, and the maintenance that was supposed to be done over the last 10 years hasn't. Rubber hardens, bolts stretch and break, wires corrode, and electronics break from heat and vibrations. You can expect that with any car.

Trying to mate the 3400 with the AWD of a DSM while trying to get better gas mileage and less maintenance is a dream.

You want torque, swap in a 2.4L 4g64 and turbo it. You want reliability and gas mileage, get a 1.8L 4g37. You want AWD, get and 2.0L 4g63T with AWD.

There is no way that everything you custom fabricate will last on your first try. You'll be working on your car more than your buddies and they will just

 

[brian9397gsx]

doesnt the motor sit oposite direction so unless it will spin the same direction as a 4g when rotated around youd have 5 reverse gears and one forward speed but im sure you have the resources to fix that. good luck with that

 

[dsm-onster]

and dsm-onster, why is this drivetrain known to be faulty (the 5 speed)-ive never heard anything negative about the 1g 5 speed awds drivetrain up to 300hp or more, which i will not be putting to it... but please, by all means, if theres something seriously flawed with it please let me know, because ive always been under the impression that these drivetrains are pretty good as far as 90's go.

They will handle 300whp just fine. So can . . . nevermind. Have fun with it! It should be quite a detailed adventure.

 

[SpawnedX]

I'm all for new things, but a 3400, has there been a GM motor any more pathetic and unreliable than this?


...well...ok fine it's now a 3100, but come on....