Get the Lube ready for this Quote!

[hypergenesis]

7

I have had an engine being built for 5 months at a shop, I started the engine building being told that there was a warranty on the engine as well as the fact that the estimated quote wouldn't be over 1400-1700$ on the entire rebuild.

For 5 months I harrased, not literally, the store trying to even get any type of quote on paper so I have an idea of whats going on and how much im looking to pay. I told the shop before I started that I did not want to pay more than 1800$ in total for all the work and that I was able to handle most of the reassembly as far as connecting the head,block, oil pan etc. due to the fact that this would help lower costs.

Now here I am on 11/21/12, I go to drop off the last parts for the engine and pick it up, they reassembled the entire block, and I am told that there is no warranty on the engine and that was just something that the machinist did for the shop owner. The new quote is 2300$ and now I was forced to leave my card information because I didn't have cash available to pay for anything at the time.

Now is the shop at fault for any of this or am I liable to pay for it all?

Like Its not like I have changed my mind I want my car running but being thrown 2300$ quote before having 2 other things done was ridiculous on just LABOR ALONE. This didn't include parts. Now keep in mind all I did was a Stock 6 bolt with 2g pistons on 1g rods. Everything else was a stock rebuild more or less and all parts were purchased by me other than 100$ of misc. expenses.

So all in all I am looking at around 3000$+ for an un-warrantied engine that's basically just a stock rebuild.

I may be wrong or need to do a bit more research towards it but Im curious if anyones been in this situation before or what is there I can do because I feel as if I was just scammed for my money on the engine.\

* Scanners acting up Ill get a picture of the Machinst's Quote to the shop

Thanks All

Armin

 

[AK Maniak]

You didn't get it in writing so you have no one to blame but yourself. For 3 grand you could have built a ridiculous motor yourself or paid a supporting vendor to build you a long block. Live and learn I suppose.

 

[dsmcurse]

That's F'd up man. I would go there and tell him exactly this "its not about the money, its about the fairness of it. How the hell do you sleep at night?"

When you give a business man exact eye contact and say its not about the money its about the fairness of it, it usually leads to further nogociation of better pricing.

I've had to use that line a time or two myself. Goodluck buddy.

 

[DSMnoobsause]

Did you get an explanation as to why it was more?

 

[StarFawkes]

This actually took a long time to find on Google.

Consumer's Guide To Automotive Repair In California

From just skimming over it, it seems that the shop is required to give you a written estimate before any work is done, and they also need to get authorization in writing from you if the cost will be more than the estimate. I don't know much about law but this will get you headed in the right direction. Good luck!

 

[NHerron]

Yeah you didn't sign anything so that's good. You don't have to pay it of course. I would start out reasonable and go with what dsmcurse said. If you feel like they aren't willing to work with you on it, either go legal or just tell them to shove it and they can eat it themselves. You don't have to pick it up and they will loose out since more than likely they don't deal with 4G63 people much and even if they did there's not a DSM'er dumb enough to pay that.

I have experience with bad shops and I feel your pain. Among other things they did, this one shop stuck my full floating Wiseco/Eagle setup in a heater like they would for a press pin setup and tried to press out the pin with the oil support rings still on the piston (stroker pistons) SOMEHOW they fractured the small end in multiple spots. Well they tried getting me to pay for it until I called their bluff showing them pictures of the rods before I brought them in. Absolutely no heat abuse to the small ends.

They paid up after that.

 

[EisHERE]

two words; bust heads.

 

[rx7ttlm]

7

I have had an engine being built for 5 months at a shop, I started the engine building being told that there was a warranty on the engine as well as the fact that the estimated quote wouldn't be over 1400-1700$ on the entire rebuild.

For 5 months I harrased, not literally, the store trying to even get any type of quote on paper so I have an idea of whats going on and how much im looking to pay. I told the shop before I started that I did not want to pay more than 1800$ in total for all the work and that I was able to handle most of the reassembly as far as connecting the head,block, oil pan etc. due to the fact that this would help lower costs.

Now here I am on 11/21/12, I go to drop off the last parts for the engine and pick it up, they reassembled the entire block, and I am told that there is no warranty on the engine and that was just something that the machinist did for the shop owner. The new quote is 2300$ and now I was forced to leave my card information because I didn't have cash available to pay for anything at the time.

Now is the shop at fault for any of this or am I liable to pay for it all?

Like Its not like I have changed my mind I want my car running but being thrown 2300$ quote before having 2 other things done was ridiculous on just LABOR ALONE. This didn't include parts. Now keep in mind all I did was a Stock 6 bolt with 2g pistons on 1g rods. Everything else was a stock rebuild more or less and all parts were purchased by me other than 100$ of misc. expenses.

So all in all I am looking at around 3000$+ for an un-warrantied engine that's basically just a stock rebuild.

I may be wrong or need to do a bit more research towards it but Im curious if anyones been in this situation before or what is there I can do because I feel as if I was just scammed for my money on the engine.\

* Scanners acting up Ill get a picture of the Machinst's Quote to the shop

Thanks All

Armin

Dude, your lucky your in cali. Take the quote to them and remind them of the quote. If they don't give on the price over the quote take it to a lawyer. The amount over the quote should have been relayed to you and authorized before it was started. You should be able to get this sorted out pretty easily with the legal system.

 

[boost97gst]

This sounds so familiar to shit i went through. Mine was with the entire car. They kept it for 6 months until i finally lost my patience. Got back a car, an engine, and a huge box of bolts. I threatened to sue and that did the trick. I wasnt kidding, i would have spent more just on principal to make this prick suffer in court. Im still angry. I ended up not paying a dime and got the car towed to my shop for free. Still sucked though

What happened to you is unfortunate. Do youre research before you come at them. Looks like youre in good shape in that there are no written estimates(which are required). You may have a leg to stand on. But get ready for long fight. If they want they can surely drag it out. You have to weigh out which is more important: Gettin a fair shake, or gettin your engine back. For me, this car is a hobby and i was prepared to wait a year if need be. Had i needed it to drive? Idk what would have happened

EDIT:
Forgot something: Bogus reminded me in his post below. When my engine was built it took about 10 weeks. Got it back at the agreed price(just under 3k for everything), installed it, broke it in properly and it was knocking on rod 3 after 300 miles. Now i had NO warranty, just a handshake like Bogus referenced. They realized that the crank was cut wrong and could not be repaired. I still had to pay parts but all the labor was free. Im over 2500 miles on the engine now w zero problems. I think they actually used an eagle crank but im not sure. Besides the point tho, just thought i would share my experience with an unwritten warranty situation.

I have to say though, my next engine will most definitely be one from JAM. Bang for the buck is better than local shops even including shipping and they KNOW the 4g63. Local machine shops seem to have a hard time with the 4g engine for some odd reason. I think theyre all into SBC's so they dont know 4 bangers as well as one would think. In my situation, there was absolutely no excuse to reuse a crank that was out of spec, someone dropped the ball.

 

[BogusSVO]

I can understand the no warrenty part, but most of the better shops will still give you a "hand shake" warrenty. So if it is something they screwed the pooch on they will work with you to get it resoved.

But it covers them if you do a bonehead move like run it hot and warp the head, or you throw on some huge turbo and boost 50 psi w/450 injectors and melt the pistons out.

Now going from $1700 to $2300 without a phone call to let you know and get some sort of approval is just wrong.

I can see going over budget by $50 to $100 and not calling, beacuse this that or the other thing was needed... like finding a crack in the cylinder bore and installing a sleeve to save the block.

But if you flat out told them not to do a full engine build, but assembel the short block, and assemble the head, and you would do the build from there.... they need to adjust the price some.

 

[hypergenesis]

Thanks for all the great responses honestly because I have been worrying on how to pay for this or what to do.


Now to clear some stuff up cause it seems I didn't state it enough.

I was FORCED TO SIGN THE PAPER Since I DID PICK UP THE ENGINE because he told me to come pick it up. He never told me I was paying anything when I did come pick it up so he tricked me that way.
He then got my card information and then wouldn't tell me the price until after he had all my information down as well.

I can understand the no warrenty part, but most of the better shops will still give you a "hand shake" warrenty. So if it is something they screwed the pooch on they will work with you to get it resoved.

But it covers them if you do a bonehead move like run it hot and warp the head, or you throw on some huge turbo and boost 50 psi w/450 injectors and melt the pistons out.

Now going from $1700 to $2300 without a phone call to let you know and get some sort of approval is just wrong.

I can see going over budget by $50 to $100 and not calling, beacuse this that or the other thing was needed... like finding a crack in the cylinder bore and installing a sleeve to save the block.

But if you flat out told them not to do a full engine build, but assembel the short block, and assemble the head, and you would do the build from there.... they need to adjust the price some.

Yea I told them to assemble it like that, then a few days ago he calls me and tells me that he already torqued the head to the block and attached the oil pan and everything. If I tell him to take it apart then I have to go and get another HG and get that reset and etc.

 

[StarFawkes]

FORCED TO SIGN THE PAPER

Did this paper you were forced to sign say anything about cost?

 

[hypergenesis]

This sounds so familiar to shit i went through. Mine was with the entire car. They kept it for 6 months until i finally lost my patience. Got back a car, an engine, and a huge box of bolts. I threatened to sue and that did the trick. I wasnt kidding, i would have spent more just on principal to make this prick suffer in court. Im still angry. I ended up not paying a dime and got the car towed to my shop for free. Still sucked though

What happened to you is unfortunate. Do youre research before you come at them. Looks like youre in good shape in that there are no written estimates(which are required). You may have a leg to stand on. But get ready for long fight. If they want they can surely drag it out. You have to weigh out which is more important: Gettin a fair shake, or gettin your engine back. For me, this car is a hobby and i was prepared to wait a year if need be. Had i needed it to drive? Idk what would have happened

EDIT:
Forgot something: Bogus reminded me in his post below. When my engine was built it took about 10 weeks. Got it back at the agreed price(just under 3k for everything), installed it, broke it in properly and it was knocking on rod 3 after 300 miles. Now i had NO warranty, just a handshake like Bogus referenced. They realized that the crank was cut wrong and could not be repaired. I still had to pay parts but all the labor was free. Im over 2500 miles on the engine now w zero problems. I think they actually used an eagle crank but im not sure. Besides the point tho, just thought i would share my experience with an unwritten warranty situation.

I have to say though, my next engine will most definitely be one from JAM. Bang for the buck is better than local shops even including shipping and they KNOW the 4g63. Local machine shops seem to have a hard time with the 4g engine for some odd reason. I think theyre all into SBC's so they dont know 4 bangers as well as one would think. In my situation, there was absolutely no excuse to reuse a crank that was out of spec, someone dropped the ball.

Makes sense, thing is I already have the Engine in hand as well I don't know if that makes a difference.

Did this paper you were forced to sign say anything about cost?

Yea it said labor 2300, It didnt say a pay date, or due date on it.

 

[boost97gst]

Most likely, chalk this one up as a lesson learned and go on , ya know? Getting any money back is going to be tough with the signature and the fact that you did accept the engine and took it. Best you can really do is file a BBB complaint and then help others know what these guys are all about. Spread the word on local dsm forums. Word of mouth can destroy a reputation. Just one thread on here recently about a PTE 6262 failure probably got about 500 people thinking of not going with them for future purchases.... If not way more than that.

Thats the best possible solution in your case, let people know. Reveal the name of the shop and anyone you dealt with. Tell the whole story anywhere you can to anyone who will listen and they will repeat it and your voice will be heard. It works

 

[gst noob]

I payed 800 to have my 2g crank ground block resurfaced,honed and the rotating assembly installed. 97 miles later it threw a rod driving on the interstate took the motor back the shop tore the whole motor down and said heir was nothing they could do. However they did not take the rotating assembly out of the block. So I did and every single bearing was fried and the pistons defenetly had the wrong herrings installed.

 

[Cdc1221]

Most likely, chalk this one up as a lesson learned and go on , ya know? Getting any money back is going to be tough with the signature and the fact that you did accept the engine and took it. Best you can really do is file a BBB complaint and then help others know what these guys are all about. Spread the word on local dsm forums. Word of mouth can destroy a reputation. Just one thread on here recently about a PTE 6262 failure probably got about 500 people thinking of not going with them for future purchases.... If not way more than that.

Thats the best possible solution in your case, let people know. Reveal the name of the shop and anyone you dealt with. Tell the whole story anywhere you can to anyone who will listen and they will repeat it and your voice will be heard. It works

You got that right. I was thinking about a pte 5252 for my talon, but after reading that thread and the one on the ls1 forum, hell no. That made the decision for me to go holset

 

[boost97gst]

So the pistons had the wrong "herrings"? That sucks. I use only blue fin tuna on my pistons.

You got that right. I was thinking about a pte 5252 for my talon, but after reading that thread and the one on the ls1 forum, hell no. That made the decision for me to go holset

Hey, im just happy my new pte has been good for 2500 miles . Im right with ya, holset all the way on my next build. No more bolt on shit either. T3!!!

 

[hypergenesis]

Most likely, chalk this one up as a lesson learned and go on , ya know? Getting any money back is going to be tough with the signature and the fact that you did accept the engine and took it. Best you can really do is file a BBB complaint and then help others know what these guys are all about. Spread the word on local dsm forums. Word of mouth can destroy a reputation. Just one thread on here recently about a PTE 6262 failure probably got about 500 people thinking of not going with them for future purchases.... If not way more than that.

Thats the best possible solution in your case, let people know. Reveal the name of the shop and anyone you dealt with. Tell the whole story anywhere you can to anyone who will listen and they will repeat it and your voice will be heard. It works

Thing is I haven't Spent any money to it. He gave it to me without me paying anything yet, along with that

By Law, the auto repair shop must provide a written estimate before doing any work. Ask if there is a charge for the estimate. After you have received the estimate, feel free to go to another shop for a second opinion.

A written estimate must include the total estimated price for parts and labor for a specified repair or service. The estimate must also itemize the parts to be used and the method of repair. The repair shop must stick to the method of repair and the parts listed unless you agree in advance to any changes.

In addition to the total amount, the estimate may itemize the parts to be used and the method of repair. If so, the repair shop must stick to it. They may not legally substitute parts or change the repair method without your consent.

The technician will ask you to sign the estimate/work order, which gives the shop permissionto proceed with the work.

Thats from the CA.GOv website, So if what its saying is true,

He never gave me a quote before the work was completed
He didn't tell me it was going over the inital budget
And the quote was brought after completion of the project.

 

[Cdc1221]

So the pistons had the wrong "herrings"? That sucks. I use only blue fin tuna on my pistons.



Hey, im just happy my new pte has been good for 2500 miles . Im right with ya, holset all the way on my next build. No more bolt on shit either. T3!!!

Shit, chicken of the sea is best!!! Reduces knock by 50%

 

[AK Maniak]

Even if you brought it to court now I am fairly confident that you wouldn't win. Regardless of whether or not you received an estimate before hand you already signed for the motor AFTER the work was complete. You were not forced to sign anything, you chose too. If you were that worried about it you should have received everything in writing in the first place, and more importantly you should have taken legal action before you signed for the completion of work.
Yes 500 is a lot of money but unless you want to drag this out way longer than it needs to be I would just take this as a lesson learned. You made a mistake, everyone does. So just learn from it and never make the same mistake twice.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Shit, chicken of the sea is best!!! Reduces knock by 50%

I'd at that.

 

[gst noob]

Shit, chicken of the sea is best!!! Reduces knock by 50%

Oh my god that is hilarious. This stupid iPhone auto corrects to the stupidest things.

 

[BogusSVO]

Thing is I haven't Spent any money to it. He gave it to me without me paying anything yet, along with that

By Law, the auto repair shop must provide a written estimate before doing any work. Ask if there is a charge for the estimate. After you have received the estimate, feel free to go to another shop for a second opinion.

A written estimate must include the total estimated price for parts and labor for a specified repair or service. The estimate must also itemize the parts to be used and the method of repair. The repair shop must stick to the method of repair and the parts listed unless you agree in advance to any changes.

In addition to the total amount, the estimate may itemize the parts to be used and the method of repair. If so, the repair shop must stick to it. They may not legally substitute parts or change the repair method without your consent.

The technician will ask you to sign the estimate/work order, which gives the shop permissionto proceed with the work.

Thats from the CA.GOv website, So if what its saying is true,

He never gave me a quote before the work was completed
He didn't tell me it was going over the inital budget
And the quote was brought after completion of the project.

I am not sure about Califonia laws, But in Florida, It is a total diffrent set of laws we have to go by.

Since most Machine Shops do not do general auto repair on whole cars, we have a diffrent license than a repair shop.
My shop license is " General Machining", I am not requried by law to give estimates or quotes.

So the full written estimate part does not apply to a machine shop.

Also a machine shop in Florida does not need the oil reclaime certificate.

But if they pull and install engines, then they need to have Auto Repair License.


You need to go check and see how the shop is licensed.

 

[ofgofg]

Best thing you can do is to never give that shop any more business. Give very bad word of mouth reviews and be sure your friends don't spend money there. It will cost them.

 

[hypergenesis]

I am not sure about Califonia laws, But in Florida, It is a total diffrent set of laws we have to go by.

Since most Machine Shops do not do general auto repair on whole cars, we have a diffrent license than a repair shop.
My shop license is " General Machining", I am not requried by law to give estimates or quotes.

So the full written estimate part does not apply to a machine shop.

Also a machine shop in Florida does not need the oil reclaime certificate.

But if they pull and install engines, then they need to have Auto Repair License.


You need to go check and see how the shop is licensed.

The shop has absolutely no machinist tools at all, its an automotive repair shop that does general and performance work on cars, he also had a receipt from a machine shop that I had to ask for 3 times to get a copy of, also he kept finding excuses not to give me the invoice.
From the looks of the math it looks like he charged me 500$ to put a head on a block and torque it down then add an oil pan. Because every other aspect of an engine build should be done at the machine shop unless im mistaken correct?

-
Armin