Fuel Maps And MPG

[blight]

Seeing that no one answered this in a previous post i had made (someone had told me that it is possible to have increadably good MPG with this 2.0lt 4g3e turbo engine in these DSMs) here it is again....

If it is possible to get better MPG than please do tell - what do i need to know about that and where can i learn more about that. What would obviously be ideal is to have a map for racing at a push buttom and a map for daily at push button- example: say i am driving normaly down the road home from work and this jackarse integra starts to rev it up and tries to look as mean as possible- i then push a button from my good gas milage to bad ( to give my engine to get the more fuel and air i need to kick this guys arse) then i can race and win against the lowly loser of hondadom. obviusly i don't know much about this because i don't even knwo what i just said is even possible i figure it has to do with the ecu. correct me if i am wrong.

 

[timloomis]

you could have a dual stage boost controller if your turbo.if n/t,you could lean out the map a lil bit to get maybe 1-3 mpg.in my n/t with the maft,i richend it up a lil,but only take away 1-2 mpg.

 

[blight]

Ok what is the best bang for the buck ELECTONIC (NOT MANUAL) boost controller that is dual stage - if something of the sort exists- also what is ment by dual stage? Two settings of boost i asssume?

BTW it is a turbo 92 awd....

 

[timloomis]

youd have to ask some of the dual stage users on preference and price.but dual stage is 2 boost settings.you have one for low boost,for the sleeper look or in your case,mpg.and a high boost,for high hp.electronic ones kick in at a certain rpm or boost setting.you can run like stock boost to trick the acura guy,them wammo,20 psi like that.

 

[blight]

IS there one that i can just press a buttonm when i want to do that? Because i don't race a whole lot albeit i do race- and i would like the ability of just a bush button 20 psi from like say 4 psi for mpg. Is there any ebc that does that?

 

[larsenracing]

i believe the turboxs one had a toggle switch.

 

[blight]

i believe the turboxs one had a toggle switch.

they have a dual stage MBC not a EBC i am looking for the EBC (electronic).

Does anyone else know about this?

 

[sweet97]

EBC's have 2 or even 3 settings. Just keep your foot out of the throttle! EBC's are nice though. My last wAS AN hks, 3 SETTINGS-ALL ADJUSTABLE. MARK

 

[polarmoment]

pgmfi.org at one point was discussing using atmel 27c512 flash chips and loading multiple maps onto them, which could then be toggled by adding/removing ground from certain pins. the info on how to do this is located in their wiki. you'll learn a lot about how even the DSM EFI system works there.

 

[toofasteclipse]

i use the apexi avc-r and you can change the boost with a push of a button. it also has two settings. setting a could be for everyday driving and then just switch it to the setting b and vwala, 16 psi. (thats cuz i am still on the t-25)

 

[CyberEye]

Stay in Vac as much as possible, and tune your low throttle points so your fuel trims are as close to perfect as you can. I'm getting 28-30mpg running back and forth to work, (a little city, some highway) and if it's all city driving I get between 24 and 26mpg

It's not great, but it's still pretty good.

 

[blight]

pgmfi.org at one point was discussing using atmel 27c512 flash chips and loading multiple maps onto them, which could then be toggled by adding/removing ground from certain pins. the info on how to do this is located in their wiki. you'll learn a lot about how even the DSM EFI system works there.

I thought that was only for honda tuning its not then? cool i look more into them. Also could/would that chip fit into a zif zocceted ecu (i have been there and done some reading i know what bin files and other things are and my best friend/ neighbor acutally invented the proccess of recycling computers so that end is not a problem- i can ask him about anything and he knows it about comps i can burn a chip real easy with all of his settup he infact has a network of comps just fro his home use....yeah he knows what he is doning- not that it is hard to network or anything but just for ease of home use OK....) so what do you know about that?

 

[ragedylaser41]

IS there one that i can just press a buttonm when i want to do that? Because i don't race a whole lot albeit i do race- and i would like the ability of just a bush button 20 psi from like say 4 psi for mpg. Is there any ebc that does that?

HKS made one - it velcro'd to the steering wheel - had to different settings - button out - low boost (12 psi) high boost (20 psi)

trick little tool when you got gas prices out the sky

 

[blight]

also what is the lowest boost to run safely on the these dsms? 4psi? or even lower?

 

[blight]

pgmfi.org at one point was discussing using atmel 27c512 flash chips and loading multiple maps onto them, which could then be toggled by adding/removing ground from certain pins. the info on how to do this is located in their wiki. you'll learn a lot about how even the DSM EFI system works there.

i have been searching the forms and i can't seem to find the exact one you speak of.

 

[CyberEye]

also what is the lowest boost to run safely on the these dsms? 4psi? or even lower?

0? just disconnect the wastegate actuator arm.

 

[blight]

"0? just disconnect the wastegate actuator arm"

Wouldn't that mean that i would be able to run ANY boost until i reconct it Correct me if i am wrong.

What is the purpouse of the actuator arm if it does not need to be connected then? or do i need it as my previous assumetion to run boost?

 

[blight]

this is just a BUMP

 

[King Salami]

Build your own electronic boost controller for less than $50...

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160619&highlight=Easy+wastegate+creep+solution

I couldn't find the article below on the 'net anymore, so I'll just post it here.

BY Kip C. Anderson

Hobbs Switch Boost Response Enhancement

Operation and Theory of Design -

The 1.6L 4XE1-WT engine as installed in both the Impulse RS and Elan M100 is equipped from the factory with a form of electronic boost control. The main purpose of this electronic boost control is not to regulate maximum boost, but to enhance turbo spooling. It does this be controlling a solenoid valve (VSV) that opens or closes depending on system conditions, affecting wastegate response.

Wastegate actuators by nature of their design are progressive valving devices. As boost increases, the wastegate will open progressively to vent off more of the excess exhaust gases. This has the effect of reducing the response of the turbo as pressure rises closer to the maximum set pressure - slowing the responsiveness of the turbo.

In the open and powered position, the VSV enhances spooling by bleeding off nearly all of the pressure transmitted to the wastegate sense line, effectively forcing the wastegate into remaining completely closed until boost has reached a preset threshold, then the VSV closes into the unpowered position, allowing the mechanical wastegate to assume full control over regulating maximum pressure. The OEM setting for when the VSV opens and closes is not precisely known, but the threshold is below the maximum allowed stock boost setting.

If like me, you have performed the wastegate bleeder mod, but are too cheap to fork over several hundred dollars for a decent aftermarket electronic boost controller, then there may be something to be gained by altering the response characteristics of the boost control VSV. The most effective means of doing this involves a relatively simple installation of a Hobbs-type pressure switch, however, in conjunction with the installation of a properly calibrated FCE circuit, the benefits of this modification are questionable since the FCE circuit automatically raises the threshold for VSV operation anyway. IOW, the jury is still out on this one . . .

The Hobbs pressure switch (~$45) is adjustable to switch on or off at any pressure level from 0.5 to 24 psi and can allow for tuning the system to hold the wastegate completely closed until just below the set maximum boost pressure. So if you have your bleed valve set to provide a maximum boost pressure of 17 psi as I do, setting the Hobbs switch to 15 psi should theorhetically provide for faster turbo response up to the 15 psi threshold at which point the mechanical wastegate can resume normal boost regulation duties. This translates to faster turbo response as well as improved acceleration and shift response. Unfortunately the difference is relatively slight and I do not have data to back up this claim, but it makes too much sense to ignore that there is a benefit. So if you're looking for every ounce of go-fast that you can muster on a budget, this may be a worthwhile modification to perform.

Parts Required -

1 Hobbs pressure switch, normally closed, PN: 76062 12 NC
Several feet of 18 gauge or heavier wire
1 wire tap
1 spade clip type wire terminal
2 butt connectors
Installation -

The actual installation is very quick and easy with the two objectives to this installation being to override the OEM VSV control circuitry by grounding out the ECM control wire, and to splice the normally closed Hobbs switch in series with the VSV control circuit. More simply, at or near the VSV which is located underneath the front outside portion of the intercooler support bracket, cut the white and purple wire. Splice the Hobbs switch in series with the wire and run a ground wire to the ECM side of the switch. That's it!!!

Setup and Calibration -

Tha Hobbs switch with the above part number is shipped preset to 15 psi. If you regularly have your maximum boost setting higher than 15 psi, that's probably a good setting to leave it at, but I recommend a 2-3 psi difference for best performance. If you run closer to 15 psi or have not installed a fuel cut eliminator circuit, then you'll definately want to adjust the switch down a few psi. If it is set too high, this will be rather obvious as either the fuel cut will engage, or boost pressure will fluctuate by several psi as the VSV cycles on and off. This is one reason not to use the VSV as a means to regulate boost pressure, as such wastegate valve flutter may be destructive to the wastegate or possibly the turbo over time.

DISCLAIMER: I MAKE NO PROMISES AS TO THE USEFULNESS, SAFETY OF THIS MODIFICATION, OR IT'S EFFECT ON DRIVETRAIN RELIABILITY. IF YOU BLOW SOMETHING UP, YOU DID IT, NOT ME. AND IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING, ASK SOMEBODY THAT DOES!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Copyright, 1998

Kip C. Anderson

 

[polarmoment]

I thought that was only for honda tuning its not then? cool i look more into them. Also could/would that chip fit into a zif zocceted ecu (i have been there and done some reading i know what bin files and other things are and my best friend/ neighbor acutally invented the proccess of recycling computers so that end is not a problem- i can ask him about anything and he knows it about comps i can burn a chip real easy with all of his settup he infact has a network of comps just fro his home use....yeah he knows what he is doning- not that it is hard to network or anything but just for ease of home use OK....) so what do you know about that?

honda computers run binary code too. just so happens that the 28DIP EPROM is pretty much the standard for a lot of ECU's (honda, DSM, GM, techtom'd toyota, etc.) so the theory applies no matter which engine it's controlling.

http://forum.pgmfi.org/viewtopic.php?t=7340&highlight=multiple+bins+27c512 looks like you got your answer. i remember there being a way to do it without the extra hardware, but honestly, i would go the moates route. his stuff is top notch, and the 2timer is only $30. if you're in the mpls area, let me know if you need any chips burned, i have a burner.

IIRC, it was switching pin 1 to ground and using a 10k ohm resistor between pins 1 and 28, with pin 1 completely isolated from the PC board. pin 1 grounded uses the bottom half of the chip, pin 1 ungrounded uses the top. you may want to confirm this on your own before trying it though.

 

[CyberEye]

"0? just disconnect the wastegate actuator arm"

Wouldn't that mean that i would be able to run ANY boost until i reconct it Correct me if i am wrong.

What is the purpouse of the actuator arm if it does not need to be connected then? or do i need it as my previous assumetion to run boost?

Yeah you will build no boost until you reconnect it. If your that worried about your gas mileage, thats what you need to do. You can really only lower your boost to what the wastegate spring is tuned for stock. So between 9 and 12. If you want to run lower then that, you'll have to replace the wastegate/spring.

 

[blight]

honda computers run binary code too. just so happens that the 28DIP EPROM is pretty much the standard for a lot of ECU's (honda, DSM, GM, techtom'd toyota, etc.) so the theory applies no matter which engine it's controlling.

http://forum.pgmfi.org/viewtopic.php?t=7340&highlight=multiple+bins+27c512 looks like you got your answer. i remember there being a way to do it without the extra hardware, but honestly, i would go the moates route. his stuff is top notch, and the 2timer is only $30. if you're in the mpls area, let me know if you need any chips burned, i have a burner.

IIRC, it was switching pin 1 to ground and using a 10k ohm resistor between pins 1 and 28, with pin 1 completely isolated from the PC board. pin 1 grounded uses the bottom half of the chip, pin 1 ungrounded uses the top. you may want to confirm this on your own before trying it though.

Heck yeah i sure do live in the mpls area i live in Andover Mn- heck maybe we can talk over this in more detail- do you have msn or yahoo or aol or any instant messaging? Do you work at that shop (for dsms only they specialize in these cars) in the st paul area i have heard of - i can never remember the name. Maybe you can pm your phone number even if possible - it would much easerier to talk with someone about this rather than post and wait and post ect. i don't have next to none in the info area. And hey if you ever need help in the fiberglass or paint area let me know - if you ever heard of ken madden i could possibley get a you custom graphics/ paint job on a deal with him- He is the best in our area that i know of. and i am planning on making myself an entire fiberglass front end for the dsm before the paint so yeah just let me knwo there too. (in other words you scratch my back i'll scratch yours...)

 

[jrohner]

I sold a 91 Laser RS to a friend, and since there is no traction in first gear, he wanted lower boost in 1st. I just hooked up a toggle switch to the stock BCS, so now he can switch between 7-8 psi & 13-14psi.

If you need extra boost, you can just put another T-fitting in the line to the wastegate actuator to bleed off more pressure. I have 20psi on my 1g talon with no manual boost controller, and I like it better than my 2g eclipse (also at 20psi) with a MBC (except that it's a little harder to adjust boost pressure).

It wouldn't be too hard either to just burn a chip that keeps the boost down unless you go to say 85% throttle or more. You could even have it gradually up the boost with throttle and/or RPM (or speed) if you wanted to.