First tuning setup, need help!!

[cjb26]

Hey guys, so i have my first tuner, and after a year, i have all my parts assembled:

Injen air
FIC 650s
Wally 255 with rewire
Aeromotive AFPR
SAFC II
Ported EVO III 16G
full 3 inch catless system (already on)
272's (already in)
ACT 2100 (already installed)
gauges , boost and air (already in)

and....my pride and joy, Shep stage 3 tranny, already in


So as i am trying to begin my setup, i realize im not all that familiar with tuning and datalogging. i need to know if i can tune sufficiently with the SAFC II alone, or if i absolutely need to get some type of data logging software.

or would a wideband O2 be sufficient? just match the a/f whenever i tune and keep an eye on it?

also, if datalogging is necessary, are there easy programs that i can use on a laptop? via usb or whatever? if so whats the best cheapest one? im definitly on a budget.

couple things.

NO. im not getting Link
i dont have an eprom, nor intend to buy one, does it make a difference for the SAFC?
if i disconnect the battery, will my settings die?

its a lot of questions, so thanks guys!!!
C

 

[goalieman24]

Well you kinda need some type of logger so you know what and how much to tune. It's pretty tough to tune "by ear" so to say.

Eprom is not necessary for the SAFC.

 

[Avionixx]

For datalogging I recommend getting a simple Palm pilot and use MMCD since it's free. You can get used Palm M505's on ebay for less than $50 and you get a backlit color screen. Even though I already have DSMLink, nothing beats the simplicity of a Palm-based datalogger.

 

[JusMX141]

A good buddy of mine has almost the exact setup as you do on his '95 TSi AWD and he tunes blind with an AFCII using nothing but an EGT gauge and his rump. He had a logger and the palm died sometime in the spring.....but his plans are to buy DSMLink this year so there's no sense buying another Palm.

I must say, he's done VERY well tuning blind. He ran a 12.55 on a TD05H 20G at 18psi in his full weight 2G (still had a sub box in the hatch) last summer on a moderate (slightly rich) tune. EGT's never exceeded 1550*f. This was before the BC0101 cams and FP Green that are now on the car.

 

[cjb26]

only a 12.5 with a 20G??

i was hoping for a little more than that. and what program is free for a palm pilot? and what kind of cable do i need?

 

[blcknspo0ln]

2g's do not have MMCD as a program to log with (unless that's changed from the last time I looked). Palm'n'stein and OBDLogger are the free programs for datalogging. You just need a serial/OBDII cable with a palm pilot to make things work. Pocketlogger is the program that you can buy and IMO is probably the best program avaible for 2g's.

NEVER tune on EGT's or narrowband o2 readings, it's just guess tuning. SAFC tuning is pretty simple, so getting a wideband and a logger will be suffice. Tune your car to 11:1 and watch if you have timing dips. This generally is caused by knock, at those rpms you may want to richen it up a bit.

There is a lot of information (even walk throughs) on all the subjects/devices/programs that I just mentioned; so do your homework and I'm sure you'll be fine.

 

[Avionixx]

Doh, didn't notice he had a 2G. MMCD is only for pre-OBDII; sorry if I mislead anybody.

 

[cjb26]

ok , will this work?

eBay Motors: OBDII (OBD2) USB Cable KKL VAG-COM 409.1 New In Box (item 260194628792 end time Jan-15-08 02:37:10 PST)

also, believe it or not laptops are easier for me to use than a palm, since i have 3 lying around. can i load Pocketlogger onto a laptop or is it palm only?

thanks again!

C

 

[linksys42]

Do you have some type of way to cool the incoming air charge? The thing your going to have a problem with is running 11.0:1 (leaning it out) with out a FMIC or water/meth injection to help you to cool the charge so you can lean it out without knocking and pulling timing with the 650’s because of the amount of air your going to have to hide because of the injector size. And yes it would be a really good idea to purchase a pocket logger to monitor timing, rpm, and airflow.

 

[Lonnie gandee]

Do you have some type of way to cool the incoming air charge? The thing your going to have a problem with is running 11.0:1 (leaning it out) with out a FMIC or water/meth injection to help you to cool the charge so you can lean it out without knocking and pulling timing with the 650’s because of the amount of air your going to have to hide because of the injector size. And yes it would be a really good idea to purchase a pocket logger to monitor timing, rpm, and airflow.

650's are more than large enough for a evo3. And 11.0:1 a/f is rich.?

I run mmcd, on my 1g with an afc, and a palm 105.... My time is in my profile. Its simple and plenty fast enough.....20psi.

 

[JusMX141]

only a 12.5 with a 20G??

Keep in mind that 18psi isn't even close to exploring the full potential of a 20G, the tuning wasn't spot-on, and a full weight 2G is a very heavy car.

I think a 12.5's pretty good given the circumstances.

 

[cjb26]

ok that sounds good, but DOES THAT CABLE WORK? also, can i use a laptop????

was that 11.8 on the green?

also, i'll be getting the SSAC FMIC before the setup is done, sorry should have mentioned that in the profile.

C

 

[linksys42]

650's are more than large enough for a evo3. And 11.0:1 a/f is rich.?

I run mmcd, on my 1g with an afc, and a palm 105.... My time is in my profile. Its simple and plenty fast enough.....20psi.

You did not read what I said. You dont have the same set-up he has. He has an evo III 16g much smaller than a 20g which the 20g will flow much more air at the same rpm and is a better pump fuel turbo. The 16g isn't as efficient especially on pump. He doesn't have a fmic or water/meth injection he is running the stock SMIC. So he is not going to be able to lean it out before he see's knock unless he has a way to cool the intake charge to combat it. IE FMIC, water/meth or he could get some race fuel to up the octane. And 650's are more than enough to max out that turbo (where did I say that they weren't???). But with the high timing (from the AFC and 650's) and the SMIC he has he is going to see knock in the upper rpm's when he tries to take more fuel away with the afc. Also I didn't say that 11.0:1 is supper lean, the stock ecu fuel maps for the highest load on the map is 9.4:1. Hence 11.0:1 is leaner than stock. And I wasn't saying 11.0:1 is supper lean but it is not excessively rich either. Forgot to add OP, your settings will stay set on your afc if you disconnect the battery.

 

[turbo90gsx]

Your setup is pretty good. A 2100 seems a bit small though. One of our local guy's was slippling pretty good from a hard launch on just a small 16g. I would highly sugest investing in either Link (even though you don't want to), or a chiped Eprom. It will be much harder to tune your injectors with just an SAFC. Getting even an injector compensation EPROM will help you emensly with base injector tune. 650cc injectors will take A LOT of % removal even to get back to a stock base tune, and then more to pull fuel out.
Things I would sugest adding to your setup,

EPROM ECU
keydiver or equivilat chip
Wideband 02 sensor
Logger

With a burned EPROM chip, your settings will always be in the ECU even if the battery is disconnected. That would be the best way to tune it IMO, but there are always different paths people take. Good luck.

 

[JayRolla]

I would say get a wbo2 and a logger so you can read your timing. I would think about getting meth/water injection to take full advantage of the turbo.

 

[linksys42]

Here is a good water/meth system that i plan on ordering soon. 150 psi shurflo pump. OP if you plan to go this route.

Water Injection - Alcohol & Methanol - Stop Knock - 150 PSI Pressure Switch Stage 1 Kit (1-30 PSI of Boost) (Powered by CubeCart)

 

[cjb26]

ok so do i have to have an EPROM to have a ??keydriver/keydiver? sp?

also, i dont mean to be an ass, but

WILL THAT CABLE WORK????????

and can i use it on a laptop?

and so the purpose of chipping the ecu would be to set the base injector fuel maps to 650, so the timing and everything would be infinitely less difficult? thanks again

 

[mygsx2120]

ok so do i have to have an EPROM to have a ??keydriver/keydiver? sp?

Yes you do. But since your car is a '95, are you sure you don't have an eprom. Unless it's already been taken, chances are in your favor.

Don't know about the cable, just didn't want you to think I was overlooking your question.

 

[Lonnie gandee]

The cable doesnt specify that its for Mitsubishi.. It says Audi, VW, and SKODA????

I wouldnt get it...

 

[cjb26]

ok well where do you guys get ## logging cables/software?


and yes im positive there's no eprom.

and where can i buy one of those chips?

 

[Lonnie gandee]

And read this too. MAybe You can get one here...

KEYDIVER Chips - 2G DSM ECU Tuning