First Log, 1G 10 lbs E316G

[miden]

I'm new to 1G's and I'm trying to get the car running right before I start turning up the boost. I've got a 6 bolt 1G with no balance shafts, running the stock 450cc injectors, with a walbro 255 and afpr set to 38 psi. The boost is stock at 10# and I'm running an E316G because the stock 14b blew. No boost creep with a ported O2 and 3" exhaust with HF cat.

I'm running the stock sidemount at about 5100 ft altitude.

How does this log look?

Tim. Rpm Knck IPW
28° 2688 0 6.40ms
28° 2750 0 6.91ms
28° 2813 0 6.91ms
27° 2813 0 7.42ms
26° 2875 0 7.42ms
26° 2938 0 7.68ms
25° 3000 0 7.94ms
25° 3031 0 7.94ms
24° 3125 0 8.45ms
24° 3188 0 10.24ms
24° 3281 0 11.01ms
23° 3344 0 12.03ms
22° 3406 0 12.54ms
22° 3500 0 12.54ms
22° 3594 0 12.80ms
21° 3688 0 12.80ms
22° 3750 0 13.06ms
21° 3875 0 13.06ms
22° 3938 0 13.31ms
22° 4000 0 13.31ms
22° 4094 0 13.57ms
21° 4188 1 13.82ms
21° 4281 1 14.08ms
21° 4344 1 14.34ms
21° 4438 0 14.59ms
21° 4469 0 14.59ms
21° 4563 0 15.10ms
20° 4625 0 15.36ms
20° 4750 0 15.87ms
19° 4781 0 16.13ms
20° 4813 0 16.38ms
20° 4875 0 16.38ms
20° 5031 0 16.64ms
19° 5031 0 16.64ms
20° 5094 0 16.38ms
21° 5156 0 1.28ms
45° 4969 0 1.28ms
45° 4531 0 1.28ms
43° 4094 0 3.84ms

Thanks,

-M

 

[kelvinb]

do you have an safc? maybe want to add fuel between 4000rpm and 4500rpm since you are getting some knock there, also you have another degree of timing there. thats probly why. also consider the fact that the evo3 flows alot more air then the 14b, so be ready to upgrade your injectors when you turn the boost up.

 

[Dream On]

Do a full pull from 3k to 7k and post it up. Log injector duty cycle also, it's easier to interpret.

 

[miden]

do you have an safc? maybe want to add fuel between 4000rpm and 4500rpm since you are getting some knock there, also you have another degree of timing there. thats probly why. also consider the fact that the evo3 flows alot more air then the 14b, so be ready to upgrade your injectors when you turn the boost up.

I'm going to be either using a custom eeprom or DSMLink once I have her running the way she should, so nothing in the way of fuel control just yet. I had the battery undone, so the trims were at 100. The ecu should add some more fuel on it's own, I would think. However I did think that the trims updated a little faster than maybe they do.

General trends, though, does is it in the ballpark?

I've dropped too much money in this car already, so I'm going to make sure that everything is running the way it should before I spend more. Injectors are on the way, though. Right now the plan is to get her put back together and make sure the bugs are all worked out. When they are, add maybe 1-2 lbs of boost depending on knock, trims, & injector duty cycle. Then eeprom/Link and some 650's. Once that's working correctly, a frontmount...

Thanks,

-M

 

[miden]

Do a full pull from 3k to 7k and post it up. Log injector duty cycle also, it's easier to interpret.

Will do, probably tonight or tomorrow.

-M

 

[weith1111]

General trends, though, does is it in the ballpark?

No, it doesn't. Your log is way too short, and your timing stays way too high, something is off.

Log TPS, airflow, rpm, knock, and check your base timing.

 

[wishihadatalon]

No, it doesn't. Your log is way too short, and your timing stays way too high, something is off.

Log TPS, airflow, rpm, knock, and check your base timing.

How is the timing to high? 21-22 doesn't seem bad for the low amount of boost he is running. And besides 1 count (possibly just noise) isn't ish.

 

[ChvyKc]

How is the timing to high? 21-22 doesn't seem bad for the low amount of boost he is running. And besides 1 count (possibly just noise) isn't ish.

I agree. 1 count of knock is not going to hurt anything because it is probably the knock sensor picking up some other type of noise. It looks like the timing just jumps up really high after he got off of it between 4900-4000 but the rest of it looks fine.

You do need to do a longer pull though to see what the motor is doing in the upper rpm range where you are more likely to go lean and the knock count it more likely to go up.

 

[scottsee]

Timing will stay high with low airflow #'s. Your just not moving enough air, besides 5k is not a log.... It's an acceleration... You won't have anything to worry about, I did my first log on my 2g/evo3 yesterday at 20psi logging 112%IDC with 4 counts knock retard via dsmlink. 10psi is cupcake...

 

[weith1111]

How is the timing to high? 21-22 doesn't seem bad for the low amount of boost he is running. And besides 1 count (possibly just noise) isn't ish.

When boost hits, timing should be mid teens. You want the timing to have a smooth curve up from there. He is almost LOSING timing as the RPM's go up.

I'd guess his base timing is too high. This *may* appear as though it's not a problem right now, but wait until he tries to run 18-20psi with 22 degrees of timing right off the bat. KNOCK KNOCK who's there?

It would help if airflow was on here so we can see when he is actually at WOT.

 

[miden]

When boost hits, timing should be mid teens. You want the timing to have a smooth curve up from there. He is almost LOSING timing as the RPM's go up.

I'd guess his base timing is too high. This *may* appear as though it's not a problem right now, but wait until he tries to run 18-20psi with 22 degrees of timing right off the bat. KNOCK KNOCK who's there?

It would help if airflow was on here so we can see when he is actually at WOT.

I wouldn't rule out base timing being off. I just bought the car and the previous owner did things differently that I would have. I checked it before, though, and it looked right but I might have had a bad angle on the pulley.

I didn't get to make a run tonight or recheck the timing. I don't want to push it too hard if there's the risk of doing damage, hence the mild "pull"...

-M

 

[a73_4g67]

So whats the best timing for a 1G using E3 16G at 18psi of boost?

I'm seeing 15,16 and a peak of 17 degrees on my car at 17-18psi. Its knocking hard at hi rpms. I'm thinking to recurve the timing map in the EPROM. I'll try to make the last map to peak 16 degrees. Do you think this kind of timing is ok on 91-93 octane gas at 18psi of boost on the E3?

Whats the lowest timing you can set on the 1G to accommodate high boost on 91 octane gas?

 

[weith1111]

So whats the best timing for a 1G using E3 16G at 18psi of boost?

I'm seeing 15,16 and a peak of 17 degrees on my car at 17-18psi. Its knocking hard at hi rpms. I'm thinking to recurve the timing map in the EPROM. I'll try to make the last map to peak 16 degrees. Do you think this kind of timing is ok on 91-93 octane gas at 18psi of boost on the E3?

Whats the lowest timing you can set on the 1G to accommodate high boost on 91 octane gas?

First off, try not to hijack someone else's thread. Start your own unless it is going to assist the original thread starter's situation.

But for general knowledge purposes, there is no "best timing." It is dependant on fuel octane/quality, altitude, temperature, forged or cast internals, miles on the motor, compression, and about 5,000 other things. Just tune for YOUR CAR. I'm well over 20 degrees of timing on a s16g at 20psi. Is this good? Bad?

Bottom line: you want to run the most boost that is effecient for your turbo that your fuel supply can handle, and then pull the timing up as high as it goes before knock appears.

 

[miden]

Ok. A bunch of stuff came up, but I've got the log done. Weith111, I think you're right, my timing seems off. At least there's not much knock...

Tim. TPS MAS RPM knock
37° 27.5% 301.9Hz 3063 1
34° 37.6% 415.1Hz 3063 1
30° 49.0% 509.5Hz 3094 1
29° 62.7% 585.0Hz 3188 0
28° 75.3% 647.9Hz 3188 0
27° 83.5% 704.5Hz 3250 0
25° 96.5% 786.3Hz 3313 0
24° 100.0% 842.9Hz 3375 0
24° 100.0% 861.7Hz 3438 0
25° 100.0% 886.9Hz 3500 0
25° 100.0% 912.1Hz 3563 0
25° 100.0% 930.9Hz 3625 0
25° 100.0% 962.4Hz 3719 0
24° 100.0% 993.8Hz 3750 0
24° 100.0% 1006.4Hz 3813 0
24° 100.0% 1044.1Hz 3875 0
24° 100.0% 1075.6Hz 3938 0
24° 100.0% 1100.8Hz 4031 0
24° 100.0% 1125.9Hz 4094 0
23° 100.0% 1151.1Hz 4156 1
22° 100.0% 1169.9Hz 4219 1
23° 100.0% 1214.0Hz 4313 0
24° 100.0% 1226.6Hz 4375 0
24° 100.0% 1264.3Hz 4438 0
24° 100.0% 1302.0Hz 4531 0
23° 100.0% 1314.6Hz 4594 0
23° 100.0% 1320.9Hz 4594 0
23° 100.0% 1358.6Hz 4656 2
22° 100.0% 1396.4Hz 4750 1
22° 100.0% 1402.7Hz 4813 1
23° 100.0% 1409.0Hz 4844 1
23° 100.0% 1427.8Hz 4938 0
24° 100.0% 1440.4Hz 4938 0
24° 99.6% 1446.7Hz 5031 0
24° 98.8% 1465.6Hz 5063 0
24° 96.1% 1503.3Hz 5063 0
25° 96.1% 1515.9Hz 5219 0
24° 94.1% 1528.5Hz 5219 0
25° 92.9% 1534.8Hz 5281 0
25° 92.9% 1534.8Hz 5281 0
25° 91.8% 1566.2Hz 5281 0
26° 90.2% 1566.2Hz 5500 0
26° 92.2% 1578.8Hz 5406 0
26° 92.5% 1604.0Hz 5531 0
26° 92.5% 1597.7Hz 5531 0
27° 95.7% 1604.0Hz 5625 0
27° 99.6% 1604.0Hz 5656 0
27° 100.0% 1591.4Hz 5688 0
28° 100.0% 1604.0Hz 5781 0
29° 100.0% 1604.0Hz 5750 0
28° 100.0% 1604.0Hz 5813 0
29° 100.0% 1604.0Hz 5844 0
29° 100.0% 1604.0Hz 5875 0
29° 100.0% 1604.0Hz 5938 0
30° 100.0% 1604.0Hz 6000 0
30° 100.0% 1604.0Hz 5938 0
30° 100.0% 1604.0Hz 6031 0
29° 100.0% 1604.0Hz 6063 0
29° 100.0% 1604.0Hz 6125 0
29° 100.0% 1604.0Hz 6250 0
29° 100.0% 1604.0Hz 6156 0
28° 100.0% 1604.0Hz 6219 0
29° 100.0% 1604.0Hz 6313 0
28° 100.0% 1604.0Hz 6313 0
28° 100.0% 1604.0Hz 6344 0
28° 99.6% 1604.0Hz 6438 0
27° 100.0% 1604.0Hz 6438 0
28° 100.0% 1604.0Hz 6438 0
28° 97.6% 1604.0Hz 6469 0
28° 94.9% 1604.0Hz 6531 0
27° 76.5% 1604.0Hz 6531 0
28° 55.3% 1604.0Hz 6625 0
32° 33.7% 1113.3Hz 6594 0
44° 17.3% 226.4Hz 6500 0

Hopefully I'll be able to check the timing tonight.

-M

 

[weith1111]

Your airflow seems to peak a bit late as well. By 4500rpm you should be close to 1604Hz.

Strange. Let's see what happens when you check/set base timing.

 

[miden]

Your airflow seems to peak a bit late as well. By 4500rpm you should be close to 1604Hz.

Strange. Let's see what happens when you check/set base timing.

I'm at 5200 feet, so slow airflow doesn't really suprise me too much. We've got less air here...

You're right, though, set the timing correct & see what happens. Thanks for the help.

-M

 

[miden]

Ok. Found a loose vacuum line and checked timing. Timing was at 5* BTDC. Here's the new log:

Tim. TPS MAS RPM Knock
25° 100.0% 666.7Hz 3125 3
25° 100.0% 717.1Hz 3156 2
24° 100.0% 786.3Hz 3219 2
22° 100.0% 855.4Hz 3281 2
21° 100.0% 918.3Hz 3344 1
21° 100.0% 981.2Hz 3438 1
21° 100.0% 1012.7Hz 3531 1
21° 100.0% 1037.9Hz 3594 0
22° 100.0% 1056.7Hz 3688 0
21° 100.0% 1094.5Hz 3750 0
21° 100.0% 1113.3Hz 3844 0
21° 100.0% 1144.8Hz 3906 0
21° 100.0% 1188.8Hz 4000 0
21° 100.0% 1207.7Hz 4063 0
21° 100.0% 1251.7Hz 4156 0
20° 100.0% 1289.5Hz 4250 0
21° 100.0% 1320.9Hz 4344 0
21° 100.0% 1358.6Hz 4406 1
21° 100.0% 1396.4Hz 4438 1
20° 100.0% 1434.1Hz 4531 0
20° 100.0% 1478.2Hz 4594 0
19° 100.0% 1503.3Hz 4688 0
19° 100.0% 1547.3Hz 4719 0
20° 100.0% 1572.5Hz 4813 0
20° 100.0% 1572.5Hz 4875 0
19° 100.0% 1604.0Hz 4906 0
20° 100.0% 1604.0Hz 5031 0
19° 100.0% 1604.0Hz 5031 0
20° 100.0% 1604.0Hz 5125 1
20° 100.0% 1604.0Hz 5250 1
20° 100.0% 1604.0Hz 5281 0
21° 100.0% 1604.0Hz 5281 0
21° 100.0% 1604.0Hz 5313 0
21° 100.0% 1604.0Hz 5438 0
21° 100.0% 1604.0Hz 5406 0
22° 100.0% 1604.0Hz 5500 0
22° 100.0% 1604.0Hz 5594 0
23° 100.0% 1604.0Hz 5594 1
22° 100.0% 1604.0Hz 5719 0
24° 100.0% 1604.0Hz 5688 0
24° 100.0% 1604.0Hz 5750 0
24° 100.0% 1604.0Hz 5875 0
24° 100.0% 1604.0Hz 5906 0
24° 100.0% 1604.0Hz 5969 0
25° 100.0% 1604.0Hz 6031 0
26° 100.0% 1604.0Hz 6000 0
26° 99.2% 1604.0Hz 6094 0