engine managment

[my97mitsGSX]

And there are more then enough facts to support AEM is a proven system. Very few people know how to operate it. It isn't intended for everyone. It also isn't intended to be tuned by just anyone.

You've seen maybe 2-3 occasions of fault in the system. Did you know DELL has a bad batch of power supplies for laptops. Hmm maybe I shouldn't buy a Dell anymore!!! Or maybe I shouldn't buy a Mitsu because they crankwalk... How many mitsu's really did crank walk? Not a whole lot compared to the thousands sold. What you say holds no water to make your statement of "AEM is junk".

Show me how it was wired, the maps used, etc., to support your claim.

 

[Mirage2LTurbo]

The map used was the base map provided, which was actually emailed again straight from AEM tech support. It was a plug and play ECU, which doens't require any additional wiring IIRC on the Honda's. It uses the stock MAF setup.

Your comments about other vendors producing bad products is very valid. My point is that I continue to see AEM issues, while the rest of the vendors on your list resolved them in future versions. When I find a 1.11 system that is failing, I'll be sure to post it up.

 

[my97mitsGSX]

But remember another thing, the companies I mentioned are multi-million/multi-billion dollar corporations who have millions of dollars to invest and at worst, take a few million dollar loss.

AEM is a needle in a hay stack compared to Mitsubishi or Dell. Not saying AEM can't make a great product, because they did. AEM is one of the most widely used S.A./E.M.S. to date. Does AEM test each unit that gets sent out, probably not, but did those who have problems report it for AEM to take knowledge of, maybe not.

 

[Mirage2LTurbo]

So now AEM's failures are justified because the end users may or *may not* have reported the problems? That's logical. Their tech support made AEM out to be perfect, they couldn't imagine why it wouldn't run. They blamed it on the MAF and engine wiring. Plugged in the stock ECU, ran fine. The shop didn't bother to call them back..

Have you missed my references to very reputable shops throughout this thread? I've mentioned a 900whp Supra done by Titan, RRE's shop car, one of the instructors for EFI101... all have major issues with the AEM standalone just not working. I still don't see the this thread getting resolved where two users JUST installed AEM and can't get their fuel pumps to kick on. Instead of arguing with me over how great AEM is, why don't you hop in there and tell them how to fix it. You said you have experience with AEM's, get to work

 

[Hal]

The AEM has one fault, it's too complex.

Too many people buy it and expect it to be plug and play.

It's not.

It's way too easy to mess something up and cause problem.

It also requires that a COMPETENT installer check for things like proper ignition timing on all cylinders without drift BEFORE trying to "tune" the car.

Why don't you come on over to www.teamnabr.com and we will discuss just how bad the AEM really is with those who actually INSTALL it and USE it.

Hal

 

[Hal]

I still don't see the this thread getting resolved where two users JUST installed AEM and can't get their fuel pumps to kick on.

Maybe they should actually be asking for help on the AEM forums where people with EXPERIENCE using the AEM might be able to help.

Hal

 

[my97mitsGSX]

So now AEM's failures are justified because the end users may or *may not* have reported the problems? That's logical. Their tech support made AEM out to be perfect, they couldn't imagine why it wouldn't run. They blamed it on the MAF and engine wiring. Plugged in the stock ECU, ran fine. The shop didn't bother to call them back..

Have you missed my references to very reputable shops throughout this thread? I've mentioned a 900whp Supra done by Titan, RRE's shop car, one of the instructors for EFI101... all have major issues with the AEM standalone just not working. I still don't see the this thread getting resolved where two users JUST installed AEM and can't get their fuel pumps to kick on. Instead of arguing with me over how great AEM is, why don't you hop in there and tell them how to fix it. You said you have experience with AEM's, get to work

i do have experience with it, i'd be glad to help, send me a plane ticket and 800 dollars a day to tune it.

Are they using an aftermarket ignition system (HKS, MSD), etc.. maybe that has something to do with the car not firing correctly. You say the fuel pumps don't turn on... how is it wired? Sometimes the stock ecu will turn it on because its getting power directly, but aem goes around something? Did you check voltage on the pump with aem?

Its funny, because Titan uses AEM EMS's in a ton of cars... maybe their one supra had other issues that made it seem AEM was at fault.

 

[Mirage2LTurbo]

i do have experience with it, i'd be glad to help, send me a plane ticket and 800 dollars a day to tune it.

Are they using an aftermarket ignition system (HKS, MSD), etc.. maybe that has something to do with the car not firing correctly. You say the fuel pumps don't turn on... how is it wired? Sometimes the stock ecu will turn it on because its getting power directly, but aem goes around something? Did you check voltage on the pump with aem?

Its funny, because Titan uses AEM EMS's in a ton of cars... maybe their one supra had other issues that made it seem AEM was at fault.

PLUG AND PLAY, in the sense of you plug it in, and it goes. Ignition system was bone stock, the car had i/h/e, head work, cams, etc. Your comeback to all this is just "AEM is used in a ton of cars and it works fine," that's all you've said the whole time. Yes, I know it works fine in a lot of cars. Yes, I know Windows98 doens't crash and burn for every single user. That's not the point. My point is, and has been, and will be, that the AEM unit pre 1.11 is junk riddled with bugs and non-user-specific errors. The only reason I don't include 1.11 in that statement is because you said it just came out, and AEM has supposedly fixed most/all of the bugs in it. Time will tell.

Hal, you get my membership bumped to the private board, I'll come over there and discuss it with you. I'm not out senselessly bashing AEM because I have 15 minutes of nothing to do before my next appointment, I'm saying what I've said because I've seen the problems that EMS has. I know it's complex, I know it's not for everyone, but my point still stands that several very repuatable names have had major issues with it, and you can't bash on their credibility to install it.

 

[my97mitsGSX]

PLUG AND PLAY, in the sense of you plug it in, and it goes. Ignition system was bone stock, the car had i/h/e, head work, cams, etc. Your comeback to all this is just "AEM is used in a ton of cars and it works fine," that's all you've said the whole time. Yes, I know it works fine in a lot of cars. Yes, I know Windows98 doens't crash and burn for every single user. That's not the point. My point is, and has been, and will be, that the AEM unit pre 1.11 is junk riddled with bugs and non-user-specific errors. The only reason I don't include 1.11 in that statement is because you said it just came out, and AEM has supposedly fixed most/all of the bugs in it. Time will tell.

Hal, you get my membership bumped to the private board, I'll come over there and discuss it with you. I'm not out senselessly bashing AEM because I have 15 minutes of nothing to do before my next appointment, I'm saying what I've said because I've seen the problems that EMS has. I know it's complex, I know it's not for everyone, but my point still stands that several very repuatable names have had major issues with it, and you can't bash on their credibility to install it.

that is not the only thing i've said the whole time, i provided examples and other relations to justify my statements. Your first post was simply "AEM IS JUNK" - you provided no examples in that statement, nor did you explain why. Just because its a reputatable tuner shop does NOT mean they can work with the AEM EMS!

I work on cars on the side, mostly imports. I have a great reputation in my area. I can pull apart motors, rebuild them, install suspension parts, brakes, diagnose, etc. Now if someone came to me with a lamborghini, i might have a hard time working on it because I'VE NEVER DONE IT BEFORE.

My point is, just because a shop knows how to work on cars, doesn't mean they know AEM or any other system.

Shit, half the techs at the dealership i work at can't diagnose a simple circuit. And they are A techs.. ha!

Like i said before, i need to see the setup.

 

[Mirage2LTurbo]

That's reasonable. Let's take this from another perspective. You like the AEM, and will back it up. I dislike the AEM, and my opinion on this can not be changed. Let's just agree to disagree, and instead of arguing over whether it is a good/bad standalone, let's just help the guy out that made this thread with what choices of standalone's he has, and which one would be best for him. We're an an "impass", neither of our positions are changing

 

[treebonker]

DSMLink would be best for you. AEM is junk, and would require a lot of dyno time to get tuned good. I run Autronic, but to run it, you have to pull the stock engine harness and lay in the Autronic one.

Sir, calling it junk is bashing and not just an opinion.

In fact, I jut spoke to a guy at Godspeed tuning this morning about AEM versus Autronic. The convo went something like this..

Godspeed: Godspeed, how can I help you?
Colin: Hi, you have 4wd dyno?
Godspeed: Yes, well.. dynopack
Colin: How much you charge?
Godspeed: 200/hr
Colin: We have our own wideband, do you discount any for that?
Godspeed: We would just use our wideband to calibrate yours. We have a $5000 Bosch wideband system.. Most systems like LM1 or AEM read off
Colin: We have a $2000 Autornic Model A wideband and..
Godspeed (interrupting me): Oh, Autronic?! We won't discount the dyno any for not using ours, but those are fine and don't need calibrated. So you're going to be tuning the Autronic?
Colin: Yeah.. so how far are you from Louisville?
Godspeed: We just had a guy come up last weekend from there, about 5 hours I think
Colin: Was his name Devon Gray?
Godspeed: Yeah, he was very happy with his results.. he refuses to go to a bigger turbo though
Colin: Yeah, I saw the dyno's, they looked good. Ok, let me round up a trailer and I'll get back to you
Godspeed: No worries, thanks

I dont really know what this was all about. autronics wideband praise?
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that $2000 autronic wideband gizmo is manditory to correctly readout the voltage signals used with autronics ems if you want to ever use a wideband O2. Further more not all dyno shops carry that for your convenient use. Which makes Autronics = Expensive. Autronics needs a wiring job and a 2k wideband, Haltech needs a knock sensor , SDS has no datalogging...AEM still looks to be a good choice considering all other aspects besides the "bug" which may or maynot still be present.

Just my $.02

 

[Mirage2LTurbo]

Sir, calling it junk is bashing and not just an opinion.



I dont really know what this was all about. autronics wideband praise?
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that $2000 autronic wideband gizmo is manditory to correctly readout the voltage signals used with autronics ems if you want to ever use a wideband O2. Further more not all dyno shops carry that for your convenient use. Which makes Autronics = Expensive. Autronics needs a wiring job and a 2k wideband, Haltech needs a knock sensor , SDS has no datalogging...AEM still looks to be a good choice considering all other aspects besides the "bug" which may or maynot still be present.

Just my $.02

Calling it junk is fact after the proof I provided.

Yes, the voltage output is mandatory to work with the Autronic EMS. No dyno shops carry them. Autronic is expensive, but it has none of the problems listed above. It took me 2 days to drop the wiring on my stock harness, and have the new harness all wired in and running. It's not hard, just time consuming to solder all the connectors on and lay it out, etc. Haltech has no US support IIRC, never heard of SDS, AEM has the bugs listed above plus more, Autronic, though some make fun of it's interface, is the only viable solution IMHO.

 

[slowAWDTSi]

Calling it junk is fact after the proof I provided.

Are you a democrat?


Oh to help the person that started this post , I believe the man that is running the best time in our cars on the 1/4 mile list is running one of those so called "junk" AEM EMS units I think hes having pretty good luck with his. Being junk and all :laugh:
http://www.shepracing.com/sr_dragtalon.html please visit that link. If you want a fast car do everything he did. Or at least some of what he did. 8.7s arent too bad in the quarter I think

 

[98spydert]

Where's that "bad information" buttom when we need one mods?

Labeling the A.E.M. as junk because less than 1% of the people who use it have problems is just plain rediculous. If you think the 1 in 1000 risk isn't worth it, don't buy it, don't praise it, but certainly don't try to convence the rest of the community that a proven EMS is junk. You're examples are FAR from proof.

Your convo with the Godspeed guy looks as if he's talking about the AEM UEGO gauge set up and has nothing to do with the actual EMS and has no relivance. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

 

[25psi]

The AEM isn't junk but for DSM's you can have the best of both worlds with DSMlink. You can fine tune almost as well as a full stand alone even though it's plug and play. Not to mention about 1/2 the price.

 

[Mirage2LTurbo]

Not to turn this into a AEM vs. Other Standalones bashing thread, but I sure don't read, hear, or see anyone complaining Autronic about losing their maps on the ECU, blowing out distributors on Honda applications, or fuel pumps with a mind of their own. THAT speaks for itself.

Yes, I was referring to the AEM UEGO unit. No, it was not in reference to the EMS, but produced by the same company, thus, further providing proof of the type of product they sell.

Shep runs an AEM partially because he's sponsored by them. Maybe he chose to, I dunno.. but I'm sure he gets a nice kickback to display that AEM sticker on his car It's also a track only car, so it gets 1/25th the use of a weekend warrior or even a daily.

 

[98spydert]

Not to turn this into a AEM vs. Other Standalones bashing thread, but I sure don't read, hear, or see anyone complaining Autronic about losing their maps on the ECU, blowing out distributors on Honda applications, or fuel pumps with a mind of their own. THAT speaks for itself.

I think you turned it into an AEM vs. others thread a long time ago when you labeled AEMs SA junk rather than telling the author of the thread it's an option you don't prefer.
I don't read, hear, or see anyone complaining about AEM unit either except for COUNTLESS people who buy it expecting it to be plug and play in the sence of plug it in and drive to work. Like Hal said, it shouldn't be sold as a *plug and play*. And I said before, the real complaints equal less than 1% of all that use it and know what they're doing.

Yes, I was referring to the AEM UEGO unit. No, it was not in reference to the EMS, but produced by the same company, thus, further providing proof of the type of product they sell.

The type of product they sell? The AEM UEGO is on par with every other wide band unit that's less than $500. Compairing it to the $2000 unit you HAD to buy for your ems is stupid.

Shep runs an AEM partially because he's sponsored by them. Maybe he chose to, I dunno.. but I'm sure he gets a nice kickback to display that AEM sticker on his car It's also a track only car, so it gets 1/25th the use of a weekend warrior or even a daily.

Making more assumptions If I remember correctly, Shep drives that car to the track, it's not a trailer queen. The AEM EMS is targeted at daily drivers and weekend warriorers, not people who need top of the line Haltech systems scaping $10,000.

I don't see the point of anyone arguing this anymore. The system is proven, affordable, and easy to install (not easy to use obviously). No one says you have to like it.

 

[Mirage2LTurbo]

I think you turned it into an AEM vs. others thread a long time ago when you labeled AEMs SA junk rather than telling the author of the thread it's an option you don't prefer.
I don't read, hear, or see anyone complaining about AEM unit either except for COUNTLESS people who buy it expecting it to be plug and play in the sence of plug it in and drive to work. Like Hal said, it shouldn't be sold as a *plug and play*. And I said before, the real complaints equal less than 1% of all that use it and know what they're doing.

I read, hear, and see about AEM's problems on a regular basis, and I took time out of my day to post and tell you about them to. Sure, I hear about people plugging them in and they don't run right because guy is a douche, but these problems have nothing to do with install errors, and everything to do with a junky EMS. I know lots of people running them with no problems too, I know tons of people also still chugging along on Windows 95 and haven't had any trouble since 1995. Who cares what % the "real problems" represent, I know probably 20 people who run AEM, and half of them have the problems I've listed above. I don't care to keep digging to see what I might find.

The type of product they sell? The AEM UEGO is on par with every other wide band unit that's less than $500. Compairing it to the $2000 unit you HAD to buy for your ems is stupid.

I didn't HAVE to buy anything. It would work fine without it, I'd just have to use the dyno's wideband and compare the fuel maps to the a/f curve and make changes that way. Using the Autronic wideband is much easier and more precise.

Making more assumptions If I remember correctly, Shep drives that car to the track, it's not a trailer queen. The AEM EMS is targeted at daily drivers and weekend warriorers, not people who need top of the line Haltech systems scaping $10,000.

I don't see the point of anyone arguing this anymore. The system is proven, affordable, and easy to install (not easy to use obviously). No one says you have to like it.

Haltech's scaping $10,000? I know many people locally running these that paid 500-800 for theirs. You mean MoTec? And if I'm not mistaken, Shep trailered his car to the DSM shootout this year, but what would I know.. not like I was there...

Of course it's easy to install, its PLUG AND PLAY. Problem is, once you plug it in, you have a whole nother slew of issues to deal with. Proven with who? The ones who I know are having good luck with it? Yeah...

And no, I don't like it. For the reasons I listed above.

 

[98spydert]

Sorry, I ment Motec.

Now you read, hear, and see problems on a regular basis, wow, you're examples of serious problems have grown from 3, to 5, to 10/20 now... Is the AEM EMS becoming more of a problem each time we post?? This thing must be falling aparat all over the country!

 

[Mirage2LTurbo]

It's not indirect, I've seen most of the problems I stated above with my own two eyes, and the rest I have heard first hand from the guys that run them.

98Spyder, to be honest, I probably hear once two weeks or so about some new bug with the AEM. The price for an AEM unit versus Autronic is almost identical, and the AEM costs more after you get the speed density setup. You can buy an AEM wideband and use it with your Autronic, the Autronic just won't be able to interface with it. In other words, it's just like tuning on a dyno. You have your fuel map in one hand, and an a/f graph in the other, and you overlay the two and make changes... Just like you did on your AFC back in the day

You all are set on AEM, I'm set against it. Let's just agree to disagree on this. I believe all the important points have been made. If you'd like to reply in rebuttal, feel free, but I'm going to step out

 

[telly699]

Man, you sure have been spouting this stuff for a while now.

How can you be sure that the setups you have seen were done correctly? Unless you knew how to do it and did it yourself? You said its about the most complicated thing ever, ( and it is ) so theres LOTS of room for error... I am not convinced. Maybe Im wrong, but I dont think you are the AEM god. :thumbdown

-Jerad

 

[Jokeri]

Sir, calling it junk is bashing and not just an opinion.



I dont really know what this was all about. autronics wideband praise?
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that $2000 autronic wideband gizmo is manditory to correctly readout the voltage signals used with autronics ems if you want to ever use a wideband O2. Further more not all dyno shops carry that for your convenient use. Which makes Autronics = Expensive. Autronics needs a wiring job and a 2k wideband, Haltech needs a knock sensor , SDS has no datalogging...AEM still looks to be a good choice considering all other aspects besides the "bug" which may or maynot still be present.

Just my $.02

LM-1 Wideband lambda can be used with autronic autotune!