ECMlink E316G - 16psi vs 19psi w/meth, I expected bigger difference...

[jjw205]

Stop worrying about comparing unsubstantiated whp numbers to your EMS horsepower estimation, it's a waste of time.

19 psi is not the limit of the amount of boost you can run. If you want more power then run more boost. Your log shows good airflow calibration, no knock, and a frightening AFR. Judging by your airflow reading, you have a large exhaust leak skewing the wideband reading.



You're requesting less timing than the stock map.

To verify go to direct access from the datalog, track datalog with the modified timing table. Then go to direct access from the datalog, revert modified timing back to original, track datalog and observe.

I understand the "calculations" for HP may not be correct, but I at least expected to see an increase, despite the "number".

I know, I must have an exhaust leak somewhere all of a sudden. I ran over a piece of a blown out truck tire, must have dislodged something.

I know I am running lower timing than stock, like I said, I was having a hard time running more than 9* at max torque, and 12-13* at higher RPM until the meth. So 16-17* up top now may be less than stock, but I think it's a decent amount for my 9.0:1 compression.

 

[UofACATS]

I understand the "calculations" for HP may not be correct, but I at least expected to see an increase, despite the "number".

Noted. I would keep the comparisons between your car only. I like the ECMlink HP calculator because it is consistent and that's all you need.

I know I am running lower timing than stock, like I said, I was having a hard time running more than 9* at max torque, and 12-13* at higher RPM until the meth. So 16-17* up top now may be less than stock, but I think it's a decent amount for my 9.0:1 compression.

16º up top is stock. You do hit 16 degrees in that log for a split second, but your timing in general is still conservative (that's fine).

I'll quote myself here in order to make a point of some strange behavior that log shows.

To verify go to direct access from the datalog, track datalog with the modified timing table.

When you do this on the TmngMaxOct table in Direct Access, your timing numbers in the log don't match up. The requested numbers are even less aggressive than the stock map. Now, what's interesting is they seem to follow your TmngMinOct table, which are actually set more aggressive than the Max.

I checked the log for logged octane, but it wasn't there. Point is, why is your car on the low oct timing map?


Regarding the AFR the wideband shows, I'd address that before continuing although I'd think you're correct about it being a false reading.

Once that's addressed, and perhaps the timing perplexity above.. you have a car which is giving you full requested timing (and then some) and is showing no knock. Time for more boost.

 

[jjw205]

When you do this on the TmngMaxOct table in Direct Access, your timing numbers in the log don't match up. The requested numbers are even less aggressive than the stock map. Now, what's interesting is they seem to follow your TmngMinOct table, which are actually set more aggressive than the Max.

I checked the log for logged octane, but it wasn't there. Point is, why is your car on the low oct timing map?


Regarding the AFR the wideband shows, I'd address that before continuing although I'd think you're correct about it being a false reading.

Once that's addressed, and perhaps the timing perplexity above.. you have a car which is giving you full requested timing (and then some) and is showing no knock. Time for more boost.

I am running meth thru ECMLink, if you go to the EGR Solenoid tab, you will see when I have it set to activate. I have the MinOct maps set up to be used when the methanol is injecting.

I know the timing is a little less than "stock". But it is a lot more boost than stock, and it is actually higher than the factory Evo III maps, which this motor and turbo are out of.

How much more boost would you run on stock head bolts?

 

[Calan]

How much more boost would you run on stock head bolts?

With 650cc injectors and a 190lph pump, you are most likely going to run out of fuel before you get to the limits of the head bolts...assuming a safe tune of course.

*****

Just as an FYI - You might try playing around with the secondary fuel adjustments on the AuxMaps tab. You can tell Link to pull some percentage of fuel based on the same parameters that you are triggering the meth with (EGR output). In effect, this allows you to "replace" the stock fuel with meth, so that your resulting AFR still matches the targets in the DA table.

It takes some experimentation, but it's pretty handy. Just don't go crazy with it, and remove very small percentages until you get a feel for it.

 

[jjw205]

With 650cc injectors and a 190lph pump, you are most likely going to run out of fuel before you get to the limits of the head bolts...assuming a safe tune of course.

Ok, good to hear. I keep hearing this "20 psi" limiting factor talk on the stock 7 bolt bolts. I understand with a good tune, lifting the head will be less likely than most think.

Now I just have to worry about these Evo III ringlands

Just as an FYI - You might try playing around with the secondary fuel adjustments on the AuxMaps tab. You can tell Link to pull some percentage of fuel based on the same parameters that you are triggering the meth with (EGR output). In effect, this allows you to "replace" the stock fuel with meth, so that your resulting AFR still matches the targets in the DA table.

It takes some experimentation, but it's pretty handy. Just don't go crazy with it, and remove very small percentages until you get a feel for it.

OK, Thanks for the suggestion. I saw that in there but it seemed easier to set up a new secondary table. But I will mess around with that method in the future.

I did just pick up a set of ARP's. I plan on replacing them "one at a time". I understand it may not be the best method, but I do not want to pull the motor again anytime soon.

But for now, I will turn up the boost to ~22ish, and try to get some more logs this weekend.

 

[Calan]

I did just pick up a set of ARP's. I plan on replacing them "one at a time". I understand it may not be the best method, but I do not want to pull the motor again anytime soon.

But for now, I will turn up the boost to ~22ish, and try to get some more logs this weekend.

Don't wait too long. Better to get them replaced so you won't be on the edge and worried about it.

 

[UofACATS]

How much more boost would you run on stock head bolts?

I personally ran 25 psi on a stock 7-bolt with an evo3 16g, I couldn't afford to break down. One key to pushing the limits is a smart, zero-knock tune.

I would be cautious approaching 400whp on a 7-bolt if I were being conservative. The guy who blows an engine at 20psi is the guy who has an inferior tune. The engine succumbs to vastly increased cylinder pressure courtesy of detonation.

The myth of the stock 4G63 "blowing" at xx boost level has been refuted by those who run big turbo 30+psi on 6-bolts and run low 10's on the 7-bolt. However, the myth of the 4G63 being indestructible has also been dis-proven by those who blow them with a t25.

 

[Calan]

^ well put.

 

[jjw205]

I personally ran 25 psi on a stock 7-bolt with an evo3 16g, I couldn't afford to break down. One key to pushing the limits is a smart, zero-knock tune.

I would be cautious approaching 400whp on a 7-bolt if I were being conservative. The guy who blows an engine at 20psi is the guy who has an inferior tune. The engine succumbs to vastly increased cylinder pressure courtesy of detonation.

The myth of the stock 4G63 "blowing" at xx boost level has been refuted by those who run big turbo 30+psi on 6-bolts and run low 10's on the 7-bolt. However, the myth of the 4G63 being indestructible has also been dis-proven by those who blow them with a t25.

Good advise. Thanks

That's basically why I wanted to go with WMI, not for "huge" power gains, but for a little bit of a gain (adv timing a few deg), and the added safety margin for the motor at higher boost levels.