DO NOT BUY:Ebay exhaust manifolds!

[MyÜberFastGSX]

I almost made a the huge mistake of bolting an ebay tubular header to my new 6 bolt build.

I ordered for $150 shipped from some garbage company out of california. When I told my friend about the "good deal" I got, he told me his story.

He bought one for his supra that's running 800+whp. And there are all kinds of metal shards that break off on the inside that go through and destroy your turbo, rings, pistons, piston walls, and therefor the block. He knows because that was the one part that he tried to save a few dollars on, when doing his $35k+ Supra build.

So the point of the story is, you pay for what you get, period. Luckily, I was able to cancel my order before it shipped, and pay the stupid cancelation fee and save myself a big headache.

EBAY!

 

[adiffrentcity]

If you know how to tig and want to spent too much money making a header just get your flange then go to burnsstainless.com for the worlds best collector and some excellent pipes. Stick welding won't work. As far as the op's story I side with low_impedence and the rest. Inspect before you install!

 

[VanIsleDSM]

GXS951:

There is nothing inside the pipe to protect it from porosity during the root.. after the root, hot pass, and a few fills depending on thickness the cap is put on.. which is also very exposed...

I worked on small pipe.. 4"-12" before I got into the big stuff.. anything over 30" is now welded with auto's in Canada.. basically robotic welders..

TIG does do a 'nice' job yes... but you could penetrate far further into the flange and make a stronger bond.. I'm fairly sure of it... the flux on the rod is usually all that's needed to combat atmospheric contamination (porosity).

You can also buy flux to paste onto the inside if need be... when welding to flanges you would weld both sides anyway... so it would be irrelevant... where do these manifolds usually crack?

 

[snox135]

I do have alot of experience welding SS with TIG process. When welded correctly as with any weld the parent material will break long before the weld. When properly back purged the welds on the inside will be a mirror image of the outside. You are welding a .110 pipe so you only need a .110 weld to hold it together, anything bigger than that is just excess and not needed.

 

[xioca]

If you know how to tig and want to spent too much money making a header just get your flange then go to burnsstainless.com for the worlds best collector and some excellent pipes. Stick welding won't work. As far as the op's story I side with low_impedence and the rest. Inspect before you install!

You can mig and even stick weld exhausts, the latter would just be a pain in the ass. Go check out homemade turbo.com , they are some real diy'ers whom have awsome fabbing skills. And before I ever pay $350 for a collector, without a flange, I'd try to make one. About $20 in pipe if that, and a $50 flange if that, and a bandsaw. You could even take it to a pofessional welder and spend a hell of alot less.

 

[VanIsleDSM]

snox135, what you say is untrue.. the weld should always be thicker than the material being welded... that's the point of the root pass and the cap (on thicker materials)

I'd like to see someone take a DNP manifold and rip it apart (let alone an ebay mani)... I'd put money on welds breaking long before the tubing...

TIG is not as strong as stick welding.. there is no doubt there... stick welding such material would take much more skill aswell.. but it's totally possible..

which brings me again to the question of where do these ebay manifolds tend to crack? pipe to pipe welds, pipe to flange, or the tubing itself?

 

[snox135]

No, what I say is not untrue. I've been welding for over 15 years I think I know what I'm talking about. I you are welding a .110 pipe to a .5 plate with a fillet weld any weld larger than .110 is just a waste. If you weld it properly the weld will not break before the parent material. Root/ pass is required on thicker material because you can not make a good single pass weld with required peneration in both peices. If you are welding thick material then yes use Stick or wire feed not TIG. If you are going to weld an exhaust manifold use TIG it will give you the best results.

 

[xioca]

Tig would give the cleanest, but a nice mig weld would be just as strong if done properly.

 

[snox135]

With TIG and a proper bcak purge the inside of the pipe will be welded when you weld the outside, resulting in 100% penetration and fully welded inside and out. You won't acheive that with a MIG. I'm not saying you can't make one with a MIG or stick and have it not crack. You can do that but the TIG process is going to give you the best results.

 

[Andrew7DG]

It is funny how this got turned into an exhaust manifold thread. What the point was that he bought a cheap manifold off of ebay and turned it down because his friend told him to and now ebay is the worst place to buy stuff from in his opinion.

I have bought cheap stuff from ebay before and it has worked out great. There is some stuff that you buy and don't buy from ebay. If it comes to turbos or in this case exhaust manifolds, it is best to look at it first before buying.

I think his friend doesn't have a supra because in the paragraph it states that it is running 800 whp. wouldn't the engine be trashed right now because of the exhaust manifold mishaps?

 

[xioca]

This thread is just one of many explaining bad experiances with ebay tubular headers. We are discussing what is wrong with the welds, and if one was to reweld, how to do so properly.

 

[VanIsleDSM]

all welds should protrude on the inside and out.. the same thickness is not good enough, welds fail QC all the time because the bead isn't pushed in enough... or the cap isn't convex enough... the way you can control your arc force with a stick would produce much better penetration into the flanges... which is where I assume these manifolds are most prone to cracking...

 

[silver bullit]

How would any metal fragments from the exhaust manifold get sucked back into the combustion chamber? I'm not doubting your friends description of a poor quality manifold but any loose fragment would only affect the turbine, possibly O2 sensor, cat.

This is what i think happened on why your confused so,


Metal from the manifold breaks off enters exhaust turbine wheel, eats the exhaust compressor and throws it off balance. Now that the turbo is off balance and likely under boost it has alot of shaft play, eats up the compressor wheel which then shoves it into the intercooler then intake mani, pistons, valves, etc, etc...

 

[MyÜberFastGSX]

The point was just to let other people know to be careful when buying ebay exhaust manifolds.

 

[silver bullit]

I know but i was just letting those know in the last post i made how that happens.

 

[MyÜberFastGSX]

No, by all means. I'm glad that you took the time to explain how metal particals can travel back into the cylinders. I didn't have the patience. .

 

[gsx951]

snox135, what you say is untrue.. the weld should always be thicker than the material being welded... that's the point of the root pass and the cap (on thicker materials)

I'd like to see someone take a DNP manifold and rip it apart (let alone an ebay mani)... I'd put money on welds breaking long before the tubing...

TIG is not as strong as stick welding.. there is no doubt there... stick welding such material would take much more skill aswell.. but it's totally possible..

which brings me again to the question of where do these ebay manifolds tend to crack? pipe to pipe welds, pipe to flange, or the tubing itself?

You can't compare pipeline welding with SMAW to header construction. I assure you that I can GTAW a header and have a stronger, more durable assembly than one done in SMAW.
I prototype exhaust parts for a living.

 

[Low Impedance]

The point was just to let other people know to be careful when buying ebay exhaust manifolds.

but at the same time, spending 100 dollars and maybe 5 minutes with a grinder fits my budget better than spending 600 plus on something, for not that much of a gain. More than likely ill be eating manifolds anyway one i figure out the anti-lag system anyway.

 

[Phantom DSM]

Im not sure why the original poster is bashing a company before actually trying their product. If your friends supra really had $35,000 then everyone would think that the overly meticulous supra owner community would at least consider a manifd worthy of such a build.
I hope you dont take this as bashing, but please dont present an argument without validation. I have been reading dsmtuners for a while now, and it seems like some people have the misconception that you can get an amazing product for a low price. Ebay listed products are offered for a low price sometimes due to lesser integrity in their production, but sometimes in the case of FMIC's they look awesome and perform well. The racing game is costly, and if we dont want to cry in the end then we should do our homework.
I know not everyone can afford the high end manifolds of $ 500 and up, but if your looking on ebay then you should expect less or more suspicious quality on some peices.
I believe in doing everything perfect from the beginning, instead of half-assing and whinning about it later.
I hope no none takes this as bashing, but im trying to present a valid reality check for these misconceptions
Good luck on a better product buddy

 

[adiffrentcity]

From http://www.millerwelds.com/education/articles/articles37.html

Don't Overweld
Most people, especially those without formal training, feel compelled to overweld a joint to obtain greater strength. Assuming you have sufficient heat, the leg of the joint (the long side of the triangle) does not need to be any longer than the thinnest plate. For example, when welding a 1/16-in. plate to a 1/8-in. plate in a T or lap joint, the weld only needs to be 1/16-in wide. Excessively wide welds reduce travel speed, waste time, waste filler metal and gas, may lead to unnecessary post-weld grinding, and may affect the temper of the metal.

On another subject, does anybody think about the fact that labor price affects the cost of "consumer items" as much as a quality design? Parts like ex. man. off ebay are most likely produced overseas or by low skill domestic labor. Quality control can catch most of the f-ups, but not all. Just because ebay parts are cheaper doesn't mean they are always lower quality, it more likely means they aren't subject to as thorough QC or finishing operations, like spatter grinding; and therefore have a slightly higher fail rate.

To sum up: buyer beware, but you can get an awesome deal.

 

[VanIsleDSM]

over welding has nothing to do with penetration....

 

[snox135]

No, but can effect the temper of the metal, which can cause failure. What some of you are missing is you are welding .110 thick tubing together penetration should not be a issue. We are not talking about welding 1 foot thick steel together. Which I've done and no I didn't use TIG.

 

[sureshot971]

Woa Woa Woa guys way off track here. And in reply to the original post its all hit or miss, i have a ebay fmic, that works just fine, and also a tubular ebay manifold, again works just fine, havent had any cracks or anything, i love it. It has been 6 months now and maybe only time will tell but i am glad i saved a lot of money in my purchases!

Also maybe if it was an 800hp set-up i wouldnt be using it but i dont plan on going anywhere near there.

 

[VanIsleDSM]

if you would read back you'd see that I am asking where these manifolds tend to crack.. because if most often these cracks are on a flange weld more penetration would be a good idea.


-sometimes topic wondering can lead to great discussions.. it's still totally along the lines of manifolds with crappy welds.. it's a subtopic.

 

[phillabaum03]

Just wanted to slid in and say i have no complaints about my ebay ssautochrome manifold. Ill get back to everyone in a couple weeks and let you know if my thoughts have changed.

 

[Talesin]

From the complaints I've seen, usually it's one of the tubes cracking off at the exhaust runner flange. Rarely do they pop from the collector, but occasionally one of the intermediate pipe welds (the pipes are usually sectioned together, not one contiguously bent piece) will crack as well. One guy who was stress-testing his SSAutochrome piece had the #1 runner come in the package already cracked entirely free from the exhaust port flange.

I don't know welding (still want to learn), but I do know soldering... and from the pictures I've seen, it looks like either a cold joint, or that the person attaching the pieces didn't wait for the joint to cool fully before moving it. The metal gets brittle and weak at the weld point, for some reason.

And yeah, I live about twenty minutes from RRE... I've started taking my car there, to get repairs done right. Even if they're more than a bit on the pricey side.