Do DSMs have struts or shocks?

[igs]

Do DSMs have struts or shocks? From jtmcinder's web site he states:

"These braces are NOT strut tower braces, because 2G DSMs don't have struts. By definition, struts are shocks that are also being used as the upper arms of the suspension; DSMs have separate upper arms and shocks, so the shocks aren't struts, so the towers aren't strut towers. I only call them tower braces so that most people will know what I'm talking about. They're really upper stress bars."

http://gandalf.la.psu.edu/cinder/handle/handle_body.htm

But he is confusing a strut with a "MacPherson strut", which is a type of suspension, not a damper. The correct definition of a strut is a damper that also acts as a supporing member of the spring, in which case both 1g and 2g DSMs have struts, not shocks, and thus have strut towers. Looking at both the Mitsubihi parts catalog and technical manual it's also called a strut not a shock.

Anyone else care to throw in their 2 cents?

 

[SlowSpyder]

We have a multilink front suspension with compression and lateral lower control arms. We dont have macpherson struts, nor do we have just regular shock absorbers. Its really up to you if you wanna know what the technical term is. Probably the real term is multilink front suspension with compression and lateral lower control arms shock absorbers or multilink front suspension with compression and lateral lower control arms struts. Do you really wanna say that all the time when you can just say struts or shocks? Im pretty sure when you ask for parts for a 2g im pretty sure that they will give you the right part with out having to explain what you really have. If you talk to people who really know what they are talking about then all you need to say to them is that you have a multilink front suspension with compression and lateral lower control arms.

Its really up to you, IMO in a 2g's case same s h i t.

 

[bigfoot]

Yes.


But mines a 1G.

 

[Defiant]

1Gs are fearsome struts, 2Gs aren't.

 

[jtmcinder]

The correct definition of a strut is a damper that also acts as a supporing member of the spring, in which case both 1g and 2g DSMs have struts, not shocks....

GMFB.

Not only do you have the definitions wrong, but you're missing the important point in your quest to find a mistake so that you can recoup some of your lost face.

Typical STBs connect the upper mounting plates (or, at least, use the bolts that connect the upper mounting plate to the chassis). This is the point on the chassis where any lateral force coming from a strut has an impact. Therefore, it's the right place to put an STB on a car with struts.

On a car with double wishbone (or modified double wishbone or anything else that has some kind of upper control arm), the force hits the chassis at the pivot for the upper arm, which can be quite a ways away from the upper plate. Therefore, your typical STB is not exactly what you want when you don't have struts.

- Jtoby

 

[igs]

GMFB.

Not only do you have the definitions wrong, but you're missing the important point in your quest to find a mistake so that you can recoup some of your lost face.

Typical STBs connect the upper mounting plates (or, at least, use the bolts that connect the upper mounting plate to the chassis). This is the point on the chassis where any lateral force coming from a strut has an impact. Therefore, it's the right place to put an STB on a car with struts.

On a car with double wishbone (or modified double wishbone or anything else that has some kind of upper control arm), the force hits the chassis at the pivot for the upper arm, which can be quite a ways away from the upper plate. Therefore, your typical STB is not exactly what you want when you don't have struts.

- Jtoby

1) Just because you have an upper control arm does not mean you don't have struts, case in point the 2g. You keep confusing a strut with a MacPherson strut, which is a specific type of strut design hence the name MacPherson in front of it. This is the last time I will repeat this.

2) Are the upper control arm mounting points not part of the strut tower? Are you saying if I push the strut tower the mounting plate doesn't move with it? But this is besides the point are you are trying to change the subject so that you can recoup some of your lost face. I will comment no more on your "digression".

 

[3literpwr]

1G
front.....strut
rear.....shock

2g
front......shock
rear.......rear

Struts are lateraly loaded members... meaning they deal with lateral forces unlike a shock that does not.... ie Upper and lower control arms.......

Cheers
Larry
#622 scca rally

 

[jtmcinder]

igs -

I can't help but have this image of you telling the designers of an F1 car that they have struts because the springs mount on the shockbody (which is true of all coilovers). This is followed by an image of you being dragged off by your ear while laughter echoes around inside the garage.

Please go away.

- Jtoby

 

[igs]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showpost.php?p=497248&postcount=2

Different name, same thing. "Struts" mostly comes from the wacky world of Fearsome Struts, but it isn't entirely wrong in the DSM galaxy, as they are used as _part_ of the suspension linkages, not wholly as a member like McPherson. Usually a "shock" does nothing but dampen suspension movement, while not contributing to the structure of the assembly- you could drive a cars that uses "shocks" without them (but no, not very far, fast, or well), whereas if you took the "struts" out of a car so equipped, you couldn't.

Let's see, if I take the strut/shock/whatever out of a DSM, could I still drive it? Nope, the whole thing would collapse. That must mean DSMs have struts and not shocks. Thanks for clearing it up Defiant! No wonder you're a Moderator and not just a Wiseman.