2G Cruise Control and starter issues

[daughters-car]

I'm trying to get the cruise control to work in my daughter's awd swapped spyder, but not having much luck so far. This car is new to us, and we don't know the history. I believe it was also once an automatic, but is now a manual - I believe that is relevant to this issue. It looks to me like it still has the automatic engine harness because there are a bunch of unused connectors zip tied together near the battery tray.

Anyway, the cruise enable switch seems to work since the light on the switch comes on. But the cruise does not even try to engage. I found that the cruise switch on the top of the clutch pedal was unplugged, so I plugged it in thinking that would allow the cruise to work. Unfortunately it did not, but created a new problem - that car won't start with the clutch pedal depressed! Unplug that connector and the car starts with the clutch released or depressed (clutch start switch is also unplugged). With the cruise switch plugged in, there are weird noises under the hood when you try to start it, but the starter does not spin the engine. It sounds like some other motor near the transmission activates instead of the starter - haven't been able to track down what it is just yet as I don't have anyone to help by turning the key while I listen under the hood to see what is activating. This makes no sense to me! I can't even get normal behavior by plugging the clutch start switch back in. With it plugged back in, the car still starts without the clutch being depressed, so I think the prior owner has possibly re-wired something somewhere else. Any thoughts on what might be going on and how to get the cruise working?

I've searched for hours on cruise control topics and starter issues and learned a lot about different wiring bypass techniques, but haven't found anything about this weird starter behavior related to the cruise switch on the clutch pedal. Thanks for any and all help!

 

[Renopolous]

It sounds like that clutch switch is your issue as to why it's not engaging the cruise. When it's unplugged (in your situation) it believes the clutch pedal is depressed (which is why it'll start) and when plugged in it believes it's not. I'm not sure why it won't crank when the cruise switch is plugged in as that shouldn't have any affect on the starter, that's a weird one but you may be hearing the fuel pump as it is under the rear seats which is technically by the tranny.
Someone might have more insight on this issue as I'm not too familiar with the cruise control system because I've thankfully never had to take it out. I know your clutch switch is an issue though and I would look into solving.

 

[dustyboner]

if your car used to be an AT, check to see if it still has the AT ecu and if its plugged in. If it is try unplugging it.

 

[daughters-car]

So, after much more reading and work, I'm pretty sure this is a wiring issue from when the previous owner did the swap. I have confirmed it still has the a/t wiring harness and they have cut and spliced wires trying to make thigns work. Unfortunately, all of the old threads on this site related to m/t swaps, cruise control, starting, etc don't quite cover what I need to know. It sure doesn't help that almost all the pictures no longer work on old threads!

I finally got someone to help so I could see what the noise was with the cruise control switch on the clutch pedal connected. Turns out it is in fact the starter turning, it's just extremely slow. Must be some kind of short happening in this condition reducing the voltage getting to the starter or something - it sounds very bad! Disconnect the switch at the clutch and it's back to normal cranking.

They did leave the TCU in the car and connected, so I unplugged the connectors from that, but got no change in behavior.

So, I'm trying to figure out if the previous owner has the wiring correct for the back-up lights, park switch, etc, but can't seem to find clear info on this for a 2G auto to manual swap. The back-up lights do in fact work correctly, so it seems they did that right, except the wires the have hooked up don't match the info on the forum. The wires the spliced together for the park switch also do not match what I can find on the forum, but there are several conflicting posts on what is correct for that. Some say pins 5 and 8, others say pins 7 and 8, some just say the big black wires! Can anybody point me to correct info? Or point me to a pinout diagram for the transmission connector A101 for an automatic? I tried several old links I found in search, but they are all dead now. I also can't manage to download the manuals without having to provide my credit card number! I aint doin that!

 

[dustyboner]

don't worry, i got you on all this shiiiit.

I think i know how to fix your problem.
so your gonna need to get to the connectors under the radio.
connector B-64 is the one you want.

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pin 5

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it looks like:

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You can de-pin the black/red wire on pin5 from the connector.
(in case you need to reconnect it)
or you can just cut and wrap the wire

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then plug the connector back in and try the cruise.


====================

service manuals n sheet

2g cruise control

2g b FSM vol1&2

dsm/mitsubishi manual collection

my whole collection

 

[daughters-car]

Thanks dustyboner, that's very helpful! I pulled that pin and that solved the strange starter behavior. With the wiring diagrams you provided I can see why - connecting the clutch cruise switch results in a direct short to ground on the starter relay! That explains that issue and I can't believe I didn't find info on that issue when searching. A direct short is a pretty big deal.

Unfortunately, the cruise still doesn't work. The cruise light comes on in the cluster briefly when trying to engage, but then goes out within a second or so and the cruise does not hold. I'm working on tracing the wiring and troubleshooting section for the cruise control now - wouldn't surprise me if there is an issue with the cruise control system itself.

 

[luv2rallye]

There's switches on both the clutch (clutch position switch) and the brake (stop light switch) pedals that disable the cruise when pressed so make sure they are working properly. Also the wiring harness connects differently to the Auto-Cruise-ECU in the A/T vs the M/T. Just look at the Auto-Cruise-ECU pins 1 (this one is crucial), 3, 10, 11.

Many scanners can't read cruise codes as they don't access pin 13. However you can read them with a voltmeter (analog one is best) on the diagnostic port. Procedure is described on page 17-18 of the 97-99ECB.pdf DSM Backup Manual (I've done it).

Also the cruise control vacuum pump tends to go out after many years: http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/can-someone-tell-me-about-this-part.486411/#post-153471519.

 

[daughters-car]

I think de-pinning pin 5 from B64 took care of the cruise ecu pin 1 connection. I can't find the pin 3 connection in the wiring diagrams. And pins 10 and 11 look to be related to the O/D switch which shouldn't matter should it?

I've tried the voltmeter code reading method and can't seem to get it to work. I've read and re-read the manual and can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. The way I read it, I just connect a voltmeter across the diagnostic port pins 4 or 5 and pin 13 and turn on the key and the cruise on button, right? There isn't something else that has to be done to put it into diagnostic mode?

I found the test procedures for the pump motor and valves and that all checks out good. I also tried disconnecting where the A/T harness is jumpered at A101 for the park/neutral switch thinking that might have something to do with it. The car wouldn't start of course, so I jumped to starter to get it running and went for a test drive, but still no cruise control.

 

[dustyboner]

I can't find the pin 3 connection in the wiring diagrams.

alot of the pdf manual is poorly scanned. here are some pictures of the wiring diagrams, they should be better quality.

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(right click, open in new tab)


i would start by disconnecting pins 3, 10, 11 at the cruise ecu. then turn on the ignition, check pins 1, 2, 16, 20 to make sure they are getting (+B) voltage.
and that pin 15 is getting 0v.

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[daughters-car]

Finally - success! I couldn't have got it without those manuals and diagrams, so thanks again for all the help!

Turns out I had several different issues going on. The first was the dead short to ground on the starter relay through the clutch switch. Breaking the connection at B64 solved that. With that connection removed, the jumpered park/neutral connection no longer has any connection to the cruise control - so that can be left connected. The next issue was that I apparently wasn't getting a good connection at the diagnostic connector when I was trying to check the codes. When I went down that list of terminals at the cruise ecu connector I did get a code output on pin 24 when the ecu was plugged in. I was getting code 11 for the vacuum drive system, but I knew it was good from previous testing. Turns out there was a splice in the power wire to the vacuum motor that was faulty. It made good enough connection with no load to show 12 volts, but under load could not carry the current. I repaired that splice and now have working cruise control!

After going for the test drive and having working cruise control, I decided to try to check cruise codes at the main diagnostic port again and now get a continuous short signal, which I take it means no codes.

 

[dustyboner]

Wiring/electrical problems can be a pain in the ass to track down. luckily, mitsubishi has the best service manuals ever. especially the electrical manual.