Crazy!?! Brake Problem???

[TsiBoosted4g63]

Hers the story....I am driving down the highway (yesterday) and all the sudden i feel my car start to stop like i was hitting the brakes. My brake pedal all the sudden felt like a rock and wouldnt push down at all not even a little bit. I tried reving it up really high to see if the car would move. It moved barely and then wouldnt move at all. I was actually able to get over on the shoulder and i was on a slant somewhat and the car was in neutral and wouldnt roll at all. I let it sit for a little bit and i started it back up and I was able to move it a little more it wasnt stuck anymore. I didnt want to rick anything so i just got it towed back to my house. A little bit ago i went out to check it out, i decided to start it up and it moved fine and the pedal seemed normal again. If i put it in neutral i could push it as well. I have no idea what this could be but i think its crazy. Please give me your opinions about this. Thanks

 

[95blackGsTurbo]

Rule #6 Use a thread title pertaining to your problem.

With what you're describing on the hard pedal I would suspect either a brake booster or you have a caliper that is freezing up and not wanting to release at all and is locked onto the rotor. Any brake work done lately?

 

[southrneclipser]

maybe a caliper froze up then broke loose again. or the brake booster was pressing on the brakes and when you turned the car off the vacum stopped so it let off the brakes.this is a complete guess though

 

[TsiBoosted4g63]

Rule #6 Use a thread title pertaining to your problem.

With what you're describing on the hard pedal I would suspect either a brake booster or you have a caliper that is freezing up and not wanting to release at all and is locked onto the rotor. Any brake work done lately?

I changed the rotors and pads in the back but thats it nothing else. That was about 2 months ago though. And is it possible for a caliper to freeze up and then work again?

 

[Spoolin18]

I changed the rotors and pads in the back but thats it nothing else. That was about 2 months ago though. And is it possible for a caliper to freeze up and then work again?

Yeah, its possible. I also had a mighty max truck and had the pads changed, when I picked it up it would barely move and they couldn't figure it out. The old mechanic finaly spoke up and said he didn't use the tool to screw the piston in, he c clamped it. It messed it up and I had to redo it. Rotors, calipers, and pads.

I would also check the e- brake cable, I had one of those to hang up and I also had a rear pass. side caliper to freeze up. Drive it a short trip and feel of all the wheels when you return, to see if they are hotter than normal. Mine popped and squeaked, and got really hot.

 

[TsiBoosted4g63]

Yeah, its possible. I also had a mighty max truck and had the pads changed, when I picked it up it would barely move and they couldn't figure it out. The old mechanic finaly spoke up and said he didn't use the tool to screw the piston in, he c clamped it. It messed it up and I had to redo it. Rotors, calipers, and pads.

I would also check the e- brake cable, I had one of those to hang up and I also had a rear pass. side caliper to freeze up. Drive it a short trip and feel of all the wheels when you return, to see if they are hotter than normal. Mine popped and squeaked, and got really hot.

would that make my brake pedal like a rock if the e brake cable got caught up. I also saw a little amount of smoke coming from the passenger side going passed the window

 

[95blackGsTurbo]

Brake booster is the only thing that will make the pedal go hard. Takes away the vacuum assist and makes it manual brakes.

 

[92dsm1]

I have never seen a brake booster go out and make the pedal nearly impossible to push. Not saying it cannot happen just never heard of it. I had a booster go bad and it made a hissing sound, because the vac. was leaking around the seal. The stiff pedal is more than likely a stuck caliper, it is stiff because when you push the pedal the caliper is not moving out to let the fluid flow, hence stiff pedal. Push pedal it pushes brake fluid into caliper, let up fluid returns by the caliper coming back out. Also manual brakes are not to hard to push, they are harder than vac. assist though. A stuck e-brake will usually just make the car harder to move. I juts replaced the calipers on my car because they were froze up and would barely let the car move,and my pedal was stiffer, I replaced rotors also because the heat warped them and now it is good to go.

 

[TsiBoosted4g63]

I have never seen a brake booster go out and make the pedal nearly impossible to push. Not saying it cannot happen just never heard of it. I had a booster go bad and it made a hissing sound, because the vac. was leaking around the seal. The stiff pedal is more than likely a stuck caliper, it is stiff because when you push the pedal the caliper is not moving out to let the fluid flow, hence stiff pedal. Push pedal it pushes brake fluid into caliper, let up fluid returns by the caliper coming back out. Also manual brakes are not to hard to push, they are harder than vac. assist though. A stuck e-brake will usually just make the car harder to move. I juts replaced the calipers on my car because they were froze up and would barely let the car move,and my pedal was stiffer, I replaced rotors also because the heat warped them and now it is good to go.

when i say the pedal wouldnt move it was like a rock. now it seems fine when i went out to check it out earlier so what should i do?

 

[92dsm1]

I would still start with the calipers. There is really nothing else in the system to freeze up and make the pedal stiff. Like I said earlier a bad booster will hiss, and they usually only get stiff when vac. is lost like the car dying or not running and you pump the pedal a few times.

 

[Spoolin18]

would that make my brake pedal like a rock if the e brake cable got caught up. I also saw a little amount of smoke coming from the passenger side going passed the window

Yea, like the other poster said on here, it will make your pedal feel stiff, the smoke is probaly from the calipers hanging, mine smoked also. Drive it a short trip, feel the pass side for excess heat. Mine got so hot one time, it glowed red!

 

[95blackGsTurbo]

Start by checking the booster's vacuum source. That is the sure sign of a brake booster going bad. Once it does you are basically manually trying to push the brakes down and its VERY hard. A hung up caliper will still give a normal pedal feel because when you press the brake it will allow for movement as the other calipers allow fluid to flow through them. I have diagnosed MANY stuck or frozen calipers and not once has the pedal ever been hard. Did the car want to pull one direction while it was slowing? That would help pinpoint which one it was. Saying the booster won't cause a hard pedal is complete misinformation.
http://autorepair.about.com/od/troubleshooting/ss/ts_brakes_2.htm

 

[housegsx]

I also saw a little amount of smoke coming from the passenger side going passed the window

Mine smoked like crazy when calipers would freeze up. I fought it with 3 different calipers. Eventually I replaced them all and also replaced the proportioning valve. No problems since.

 

[92dsm1]

Start by checking the booster's vacuum source. That is the sure sign of a brake booster going bad. Once it does you are basically manually trying to push the brakes down and its VERY hard. A hung up caliper will still give a normal pedal feel because when you press the brake it will allow for movement as the other calipers allow fluid to flow through them. I have diagnosed MANY stuck or frozen calipers and not once has the pedal ever been hard. Did the car want to pull one direction while it was slowing? That would help pinpoint which one it was. Saying the booster won't cause a hard pedal is complete misinformation.
Troubleshooting Brake Problems - Fixing a Brake Problem - Brake Problem Diagnosis

Is that right? I did not say it would not cause a hard pedal, I said it would not cause the pedal to be IMPOSSIBLE to push like he said. When my booster went out it was not hard like he is describing, it was harder but not where I could not push it. And yes in FACT frozen caliperS WILL make the pedal harder, just went through it last week. I replaced calipers and rotors ONLY no booster and guess what my pedal is normal again, jeez I guess the booster fixed itself for me while I was doing the calipers sorry fellow DSM'er for telling you wrong. If the booster is not working, the brakes will feel like manual brakes which is harder but not so hard he could not push, but if he pumped it fast a bunch of times it could have gotten stiffer but it still should stop the car otherwise it would be a big safety issue for car manufacturers : Guy kills family of four because brake booster went out. It very well could be a bad booster but if it is so stiff he can't push it, sounds deadly to me. I drove mine for several weeks on a bad booster until I had the money to fix it and I stopped just fine, but I could've just got lucky and mine still worked I don't know.

Also don't get me wrong I am not saying these guys are wrong just going from my experience. You said you have a sticking caliper so simply start there. If you were in my situation both front calipers were junk and the pedal was stiff because the fluid cannot push them out, I also had a bad rear driver caliper. My car sat a few mths. to a year and what a mistake. I was just saying start with the obvious and work from there.

 

[TsiBoosted4g63]

i tried to eliminiate this problem ......i jacked up all of the wheels and they are all locked. The brake pedal is also stuck like a rock it wont budge barely. I heard something about the proportioning valve that the 4 brake lines run to or possibly the brake master cylinder. Any inputt...?

 

[moi1463]

well if you have the car off and pump the peddle a few times, it would stiff up like you described. as for all 4 wheels locked up, unbolt the caliper, take off the pads, and depress the pistons in like you are putting new pads on, see if the pistons move any. Usually if the master cylinder is bad, you would have soft peddle pressure.

 

[TsiBoosted4g63]

well if you have the car off and pump the peddle a few times, it would stiff up like you described. as for all 4 wheels locked up, unbolt the caliper, take off the pads, and depress the pistons in like you are putting new pads on, see if the pistons move any. Usually if the master cylinder is bad, you would have soft peddle pressure.

Even with the car running the pedal is solid.

 

[95blackGsTurbo]

Proportioning valve can cause that. It won't allow the fluid to go back into the master cylinder. Try breaking the lines loose at the valve and see if you can get any air or fluid out. Then see if the pedal feel changes.

 

[TsiBoosted4g63]

Proportioning valve can cause that. It won't allow the fluid to go back into the master cylinder. Try breaking the lines loose at the valve and see if you can get any air or fluid out. Then see if the pedal feel changes.

thanks...someone also was telling me about a check valve??

 

[Morphius]

Like others have already said. Start with the caliper. Remove the lower of the two bolts to swing it up so you can inspect the piston seal. If it's torn, rolled over or damaged in any way, go buy a new one.

Usually when a brake booster fails you hear it leak or it gives a dead pedal feel. Like you're applying the brakes and you have good resistance and all of a sudden the pedal just goes to the floor. (yet the brakes still work, just the pedal is pushed alot further) I've had 2 brake boosters go bad on high mileage DSMs and that's the condition they exhibited.

Proportioning valve? A former co-worker and friend that works at DCX had a AWD talon. He ran into some brake issues, namely the typical rear calipers going bad. He got those fixed along with new front calipers. Anyhow, he developed a problem with a stiff pedal. In the end, we found it was the proportioning valve. Doesn't make sense, but it was. He talked to the brake gurus at work and they were baffled that the part had failed. They'd never had a proportioning valve fail. Likely contamintaion internally.

On the other hand, I had a 95 chevy 1/2 ton that had a sticking front caliper. The truck had front ABS. The truck, at random, would get a stiff pedal. But if I let off and applied the brakes again, it'd work fine. I changed out the caliper, and it never did it again. For this instance, I'd attribute the hard pedal with a malfunction of the ABS in combination with the stuck caliper. Does your car have ABS?

 

[TsiBoosted4g63]

Like others have already said. Start with the caliper. Remove the lower of the two bolts to swing it up so you can inspect the piston seal. If it's torn, rolled over or damaged in any way, go buy a new one.

Usually when a brake booster fails you hear it leak or it gives a dead pedal feel. Like you're applying the brakes and you have good resistance and all of a sudden the pedal just goes to the floor. (yet the brakes still work, just the pedal is pushed alot further) I've had 2 brake boosters go bad on high mileage DSMs and that's the condition they exhibited.

Proportioning valve? A former co-worker and friend that works at DCX had a AWD talon. He ran into some brake issues, namely the typical rear calipers going bad. He got those fixed along with new front calipers. Anyhow, he developed a problem with a stiff pedal. In the end, we found it was the proportioning valve. Doesn't make sense, but it was. He talked to the brake gurus at work and they were baffled that the part had failed. They'd never had a proportioning valve fail. Likely contamintaion internally.

On the other hand, I had a 95 chevy 1/2 ton that had a sticking front caliper. The truck had front ABS. The truck, at random, would get a stiff pedal. But if I let off and applied the brakes again, it'd work fine. I changed out the caliper, and it never did it again. For this instance, I'd attribute the hard pedal with a malfunction of the ABS in combination with the stuck caliper. Does your car have ABS?

no ABS and what about the check valve inside of the vac line and another thing that ?'s me is that it happened once for a quick second earlier in the day and then went away...Then later that night it happened again....Let loose for a little bit...Now its stuck and wont move.

i took the vac line off and it seemed fine.

 

[Morphius]

no ABS and what about the check valve inside of the vac line and another thing that ?'s me is that it happened once for a quick second earlier in the day and then went away...Then later that night it happened again....Let loose for a little bit...Now its stuck and wont move.

i took the vac line off and it seemed fine.

As others suggested first, I'd strongly suggest with inspecting your front brake calipers first. Sounds like your pass side is for sure bad given it "smoked". I'd get that fixed first. I think you might have a combination of issues and you need to start with the calipers.

I do find it odd that all four wheels don't move. Did you have all four wheels in the air when you checked?

 

[TsiBoosted4g63]

As others suggested first, I'd strongly suggest with inspecting your front brake calipers first. Sounds like your pass side is for sure bad given it "smoked". I'd get that fixed first. I think you might have a combination of issues and you need to start with the calipers.

I do find it odd that all four wheels don't move. Did you have all four wheels in the air when you checked?

is it possible that it could be the transfer case?

 

[Morphius]

Possible. Still wouldn't explain the hard pedal.



Edit: (Even with a bad t-case, you still should be able to rotate the wheels very, very slowly. At that point, you're working LSD in the rear and the viscous coupler in the trans.) Now that I think about it, I'm not entirely sure this is true. Have to think about it...

 

[TsiBoosted4g63]

Possible. Still wouldn't explain the hard pedal. Even with a bad t-case, you still should be able to rotate the wheels very, very slowly. At that point, you're working LSD in the rear and the viscous coupler in the trans.

ok. If the check valve is bad in the vac line what would it do? Or how will ii know if its bad?