Crankwalk Fix Options

[Fullthrottle7]

I already know this topic has been beaten to death and I have read many posts regarding crankwalk both before and after I bought my 95 Talon TSi. Unfortunately, the majority of the posters asking about crankwalk are met with responses telling them that crankwalk is over rated or to gain more experience with DSM's before asking stupid questions about the subject. I am actually experiencing crankwalk right now, and would really like some honest opinions about my options. For a little background on my car, it has 109,000 miles right now. It was rebuilt by a reputable DSM shop at 98,000. I'm not mechanically inclined (I know DSM's aren't what I should have, but I can't give up the turbo AWD), so I don't exactly know why the engine was rebuilt. The way it was explained to me, the previous owner probably didn't take good enough care of it and a lack of oil caused something bad to happen to the pistons. I know that the car got all new pistons and rings and that the cylinder walls were honed, but beyond that, I'm not sure. I think some if not all of the valves were also replaced. Anyways, I bought the car just after the rebuild and it has run wonderfully up until this point. Last week, I began to have some issues with my clutch. It felt different and after taking left hand turns in gear (not using the clutch during the turn) and then shifting just after the turn, the clutch sticks about half way back up. I knew from reading about crankwalk that this can be an early symptom, as the crank is moving enough to allow the clutch to get caught. To be safe, I took the car back to the shop and told them what I was experiencing. They looked at the clutch and checked the crank movement (I believe by using the technique of prying at a certain pully??) and informed me that while Mitsu specs allow a movement of .0010, my crank is currently moving .0045 or 45 thousandths, which the mechanic said was definately the beginning of crankwalk.

I know I can drive the car fine right now. Besides the occasional clutch problem, the car feels 100% normal. Is there any particluar timeline of problems associated with crankwalking? From what I know, the next thing to go would most likely be my crank angle sensor, making the car unable to start and drive. I would feel horrible trying to sell the car to a private party as it is knowing that engine failure is soon to come, so I am toying with the idea of trading it in to a dealer, but I really don't have money to be spending on an overpriced dealer car. The shop is putting an estimate together to fix the crank's movement, but I've read that 80+ percent of the time a walking 7 bolt is rebuilt, it walks again and I can't have that. The best option seems to be swapping a 6 bolt block in, since they don't walk, but again, I am not mechanically inclined at all, so I would have to have a shop do this. Another option is to buy an entire 6 bolt engine and swap that in, but I don't know how difficult it is to go from a 2G motor to a 1G motor. Two of my friends have replaced their own 1G motors, so if it is similar to that, I could probably get the job done without the shop, which would save me a bunch of money. I think the shop is going to quote me between $1500 and $2000 for fixing the crank, and I'm pretty sure an engine swap is around the same price, so I don't know what to do. Anybody that has dealt with crankwalk before, please let me know what you did to fix the problem or give me ideas on the best course of action. Thanks.

 

[HighPsi92GST]

Unless the engine was definitly rebuilt for some other reason besides the crank moving, theres a possibility that the shop that rebuilt it screwed something up. Too many times people have an engine rebuilt because of a spun bearing or just upgrading, then a few months or a year later start saying they have crank walk. while it IS possible, the chance of error during the rebuild is still there.

that being said, any engine can get crankwalk, not just the 7 bolts. They are more likely then 6 bolts, but a 6 bolt isnt garunteed to not walk.

on my 93 tsi awd around 90,xxx miles starting feeling some problems with the car, and by 100,xxx miles the crank could literally be pushed and pulled back and forth by simply grabbing the crank pulley, and moved quite a bit. Replacing the engine with a 6 bolt now.

While some people will sell the car quick pretending nothing is wrong and putting the crank problem in someone elses hands, I see you do not want to do that. Although if you take it to a dealer and trade it on another car, they will just stick it out on the lot and resell it as it is, and most likely also not tell the new owner of the problem.

Good luck with whatever you do. I would suggest a 6 bolt swap and then feel safer about the car

 

[Warmachine91vr4]

as far as a fix, A good place to start is to get the updated thurst bearings, this is main cause of it the factory thrust bearings were defective causing premature failure, as far as the clutch sticking that could be from lack of fluid or a bad slave cyl, if it goes down and sticks half way, do you have to pump it back up or when you come out of the turn does it get pressure back?

 

[Fullthrottle7]

I don't have to pull it up myself, it sticks for just a second then returns all the way to its normal position. My friend's thought it was the slave, too, which is pretty cheap ($33) to get, so if that would solve the problem for now, that would be cool. Again, how much time am I looking at driving normally before this crank walks to the point of the engine not running?

 

[Attack Eagle]

between 5 minutes and a year. one day you'll be tooling along and you'll hit the clutch and it will simply go "plink" and die like you turned off the ignition.


you have @2@ options.

get a 99 shortblock and rotating assembly (crank bearings rods pistons rings) from MITSU (98 99 no "Cwalk" issue/revised blocks) & make sure you unplug the clutch start interrupt for now and forever and call it a day. tis way you reuse all the 10k old parts like oil pump timing stuff water pump front case pan oil pickup head etcetc.

go 6 bolt with a used 6 bolt engine...

an new one with all the new parts on it will be WAY more than 2k... I'm in about 4k in parts on the shortblock right now with a 2g head not yet rebuilt.

 

[Fullthrottle7]

All right, those are helpful suggestions. I like the idea of the 98/99 block if it indeed has been fixed for crankwalk. Should I just tell my shop to order this for me and put it in, or is that something where I need to buy the motor and give it to them to do? Also, my grandpa builds hot rods and knows a lot about cars, but not much about imports (he hates them). Is swapping either a 6-bolt or one of these newer 7-bolt blocks any harder on these engines than on something domestic like a 350? If not, I'm sure I could buy an engine on ebay or something and have him help me put it in...

 

[Fullthrottle7]

How bout this engine: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33615&item=7965853370&rd=1

These guys seem to know what they're doing and the explanation given for their fix of crankwalk sounds like they know their stuff. With buy-it-now, you get a choice of a few performance things, too, which might be worth the cost. Does this appear to be a good deal, and if so, how difficult would it be to put in? Is it as easy as taking out my engine and marking all of the wires well and then just dropping this one in and hooking everything back in? If thats the case, my friends and I could probably do it for way less than the shop will charge. Thanks again...

 

[Attack Eagle]

reputable dealer

reputable dealer

reputable dealer

this guy isn't...


but be advised ASK how long it will take for delivery...

slowboy took 2.5 MONTHS to get me my 6 bolt shortblock.

I figured they'd have one on the shelf ready to ship, or at the worst a couple of weeks...

You need a dsm guy to swap 6bolt to 7 bolt, and you really need a dsm'r to put on the tbelt if you have never done one. It ain't a chevy for sure.

 

[Fullthrottle7]

This guy seems to be a reputable dealer and that engine looks pretty clean to me? All of the pistons and other important parts are new and seem to be good brand names. The balance shafts are already removed, so that is a bonus, the crank is reground and the connecting rods remanufactured. The head is fully machined (what exactly does this mean?) with a multi angle valve job, new seals, and bronze guides. The engine is shipped as a longblock with the head, timing belt, and water pump installed and tested on a simtest engine test station, so I think I should be able to just drop it in and start it up??? I looked at the website www.overbore.com and it appears that the company does good work. I also looked at their feedback on ebay and it was excellent. A couple of people that bought engines noted that the engine was better than they had expected. Any other opinions on this engine? I talked to my friends and they ensured me that putting it into my car would be easy. They said that the engine itself really doesn't have much attached to it and that all we would have to do is remove the current one, bolt in the new one, and then put back the intake and exhaust manifolds, the hoses for water and oil, and some of the power steering stuff. I assume taking my old clutch off and putting it on the new one is fairly easy and that since it is the same engine, the transmission should hook up to it correctly. I just sent another email about shipping, thanks for that input. Any other ideas on this engine, as I will be ordering it in the next week if this is indeed a good deal. Thanks again.

 

[Attack Eagle]

reground crank...

no no IMO.

 

[jim97gst]

Mitsu specs allow a movement of .0010, my crank is currently moving .0045 or 45 thousandths, which the mechanic said was definately the beginning of crankwalk.

Those specs are wrong. The service manual states that the standard value for crankshaft end play in inches is .0020-.0071, and the limit is .0098. Your car might have come from the factory with .0045 of endplay. So maybe after the rebuild it was at .002 and you got to .0045 really quick (bad). Or maybe it was .0045 from the rebuild, and you're fine.

I don't think the clutch problems you're experiencing are crankwalk related since you are still well within spec. That, or the shop didn't measure your end play correctly.

You can measure it using this method:

http://www.angelfire.com/pa4/fwdcrankwalk/

 

[Fullthrottle7]

Oh, man, that would make my day if it wasn't crankwalk, but why would the clutch just stick after left turns? I'm getting it back from the shop tomorrow, they gave me an estimate of like $2200 to repair it I think, so I'm definately gonna wait for a bit to see all my options. Jim, what else do you think it could be? Also, maybe I heard them wrong - could it have been at .046 instead of .0046? I'm pretty sure it was 46 thousandths tho. I know shops want money, too, but that seems like bullshit to me to tell me this is something that has to be done soon and charge me this much if its not even out of factory specs...

 

[Attack Eagle]

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if I am not mistaken the 0.046 would be 46 thousandth not 0.0046 which would be 46 ten thousandth or 4.6 thousandth.

 

[Warmachine91vr4]

"my grandpa builds hot rods and knows a lot about cars, but not much about imports (he hates them). Is swapping either a 6-bolt or one of these newer 7-bolt blocks any harder on these engines than on something domestic like a 350?" UHMM not be be a complete ass but eagles are domestic always have been always will be. and they have to date made over 10 million 350's and 350 variant's. 4g63t's are easy as hell to find.i have two cyclones with trans and transferr cases for 1900$ for sale, they are complete long block's i have compression/leakdown charts, all passed 170 across on both . also on a standard carbed 350 there are three things coming off the engine the throttle cable/ well choke if you have it, fuel line, and the coil wire, the 4g turbo has a cluster fuc* of plugs and vac lines so i would have to say install on a 350 takes 30 minutes, install on a 4g63 turbo takes well it all depends on your skill level, i can do it in under 4 hours alone. on a good day. again not trying to be an ass, good luck with that swap

 

[Methodryder]

Could someone verify for me, just for shyts and giggles, in 98-99 the crank walk issue is not as severe as the previous 7 bolts? I have a 98 and just wanted to know because I had always calculated for an eventual crankwalk failure, but I am not particularly hard on the car and dont even ever boost past stock, so can I be less concerned with crankwalk? I guess I had never heard from anyone at anytime before that there was a revised crank/ bearing fix or configuration for the 98-99 model line. It would be nice to know that I don't have to worry quite as much as i had about the issue. Thanks for the information and sorry if this was a stupid question.

 

[jim97gst]

[/QUOTE]Jim, what else do you think it could be?

Sorry, I have no idea. Definitely worth checking out potential clutch problems first though. What you really need to do is confirm what the measurement is. Attack Eagle above is right. If you are really at 45 thousands (0.045), then I'd be kinda suprised your car is still running. If you are at 0.0045, then wait it out, see what happens, and check out the clutch.