Check out these datalogs, Help on tuning.

[92tsifwd]

I got 10 counts of knock at 2125 rpms at 21.0% throtle, 31* timing, FT02 100%, 02-R 0.19v This is all at during the10 counts of knock.

On full throtle pull in 1st and 2nd gear. There was 1 count at 7406 pms at 99.6% throtle, 18* timing first gear o2-R .82v
2nd gear, 1 count at 6093 rpms 23* timing, 99.6% throtle, 02-R .82v, 8 counts at 6312 rpms 21* timing 99.6% throtle, 02-R .82v, INJD is at 117.9% highest & no fuel cut. O2's were around .82v (lean) This was with it creeping to 20psi on 91 pump gas, stock 450's and sidemount. The rest of mods are in my profile. I am getting a 34mm flapper installed soon.

FTRL 100.0%
FTRM 100.0%
FTRH 100.0% (Most curent fuel trims)
(after reseting the ecu first)

AIRT ranged from 54* to 78*

I need advise on tuning it espeshaly at low throtle. It seems like I am runing rich yet I am still getting low throtle knock. I'm using a SAFC2 to tune with. I have a less curent datalog I could show someone but I need your email to be able to send it.

SAFC2 SETTINGS
low thr
800 24%
1600 50% was getting 43 counts of knock at 1600-3000.
2200 50% still getting 10 counts but, not consistantly.
3200 40%
4200 11%
4400 8%
5000 13%
5400 11%
6000 7%
6400 9%
7000 11%
7400 8%
High thr
800 24%
1600 50%
2200 50%
3200 40%
4200 17%
4400 23%
5000 23%
5400 34%
6000 30% over 100% duty cycle from here up
6400 32%
7000 26%
7400 25

 

[92tsifwd]

Anybody???

 

[CanadianTSi]

I wouldn't really worry about the knock down low, it's probably just phantom knock.

I would turn the boost down abit, 20psi is a little much for the Stock IC and injectors esp. on 91.

 

[92tsifwd]

I would like to run no more than 10psi because my stock smic is becoming heat soaked over 10psi, I think that is where the knock is coming from after even a half throtle run. Then if you baby it around for a while it gets its timing and torque back as the ic cools back down. I plan on getting a front mount and a 34mm flapper next. I have the boost set at 10psi and have no control over it right now as it creeps to 20psi. Thanks for your input.

 

[CanadianTSi]

Then just stay off the gas for awhile I feel your Pain, mine will creep to 25+ if I stay in it...

 

[SpoolnTsi]

I would like to run no more than 10psi because my stock smic is becoming heat soaked over 10psi, I think that is where the knock is coming from after even a half throtle run. Then if you baby it around for a while it gets its timing and torque back as the ic cools back down. I plan on getting a front mount and a 34mm flapper next. I have the boost set at 10psi and have no control over it right now as it creeps to 20psi. Thanks for your input.

I highly doubt your getting heat soak at 10psi. You should be able to run 16lbs without heat soakin safely. Hell ive ran 18lbs with a 16g, stock smic and injectors without heatsoaking. Your trying to tune for no knock with 91 octane, which is tough. I could only go 18lbs on sunoco 94 so i doubt youll be able to get that much. I did notice a couple of things which you should consider doing. If your turbo and o2 housing arent ported, get them ported. And get that 34mm flapper. That will help control the boost creep your experiencing. 2nd, i noticed you dont have a FPR. Get one. You might need to raise your fuel pressure since you have the 2g mas and stock injectors. Your killing your injectors. I personally think your settings at 800, 1600, 2200, and 3200 are way too high. Too much fuel can cause knock. You may be pushing those injectors too much past their limit. Another thing you need to consider is your low thr settings. The ECU goes into open loop mode once the engine hits 4000rpms and up. Take your points from 4200 and up, and set them all the same as the 4200 which is 11% but only on the low thr setting. My car was basically the same setup as yours except i had the evo316g, fmic and 550 injectors @23lbs. My car ran rich in closed loop mode and lean in open loop mode. I had my work cut out for me when i tuned. I dont think this is the case for you. I think your making your car way too rich for what it needs to be, hence the knock your seeing. And your pushing those injectors way too much

 

[anconover]

wtf are you doing? Look at your settings, are you kidding me? Your not running lean, your running UNGODLY rich man. If your on stock injectors, you need to zero that s-afc right out.... I dunno what the hell you were doing?

If you didnt realize it, you can knock from being too rich, and being too rich your o2's will be all funky. You need to zero the s-afc right out, your on stock injectors, and a walbro 190....

 

[SpoolnTsi]

wtf are you doing? Look at your settings, are you kidding me? Your not running lean, your running UNGODLY rich man. If your on stock injectors, you need to zero that s-afc right out.... I dunno what the hell you were doing?

If you didnt realize it, you can knock from being too rich, and being too rich your o2's will be all funky. You need to zero the s-afc right out, your on stock injectors, and a walbro 190....

Hes also running a 2g mas which will make him run lean. So he cant zero it out or he will be too lean. He will need to richen it back up but definately not as much as he has it

 

[anconover]

Even if he has a 2g mas, he can richen it up a few %... NOT 50% . Hes so far off, its not even funny.... 50%? thats ridiculous. Drop it down to 5-10% across the board and see how much better it feels. And your gonna knock no matter if ur spiking to 20psi.

 

[92tsifwd]

Richening it up is the only way I could get the low throtle knock to go down or at least I thought? My head being ported and the 2g mass is what made it hard to tune. So your suggesting put all settings 5% 10% accross. That seems a little lean but I will try it. When I asked where a good starting point was, I was told 20% accross because the 2gmass flows 20% more air.

Also I have a 2.5" o2 housing with a external dump and the wastegate is ported to 2mm smaller than the stock flapper and the rest of the turbo is port matched perfectly with the 7cm gaskit. It used to hold 17 and the 2gmass made it go up.

Is the 34mm going to clear up this boost creep entirely or do I need to go a different rought?

Also, if I am experiencing phantom knock at low throtle, how do I tune around it? The timming takes a dip when getting this knock. Is it phantom knock if the timing gets pulled?
Thanks for your advise.

 

[anconover]

make sure your base timing is correct, then start low. Your settings are all over the place too.

 

[92tsifwd]

This is what I tried plus 20% accross the board and was getting terible low throtle knock. This is what I ended up with to get the o2 trim at normal.
Low th
800 21%
1600 26%
2200 26%
3200 23%
4200 11%
4400 11%
5000 11%
5400 11%
6000 11%
6400 11%
7000 11%
7400 11%

high th
800 19%
1600 26%
2200 26%
3200 26%
This is all I focused on is low throtle for now and it was running good and getting no knock, o2 trim at 100% the whole time but, after the temp went down, still getting 43 counts of knock at 2375 rpms at 22.2% throtle 18 deg timing. Now my low thr trim changed to 95.3% and the 43 counts came after the outside temp went down. What is causing this knock? I think it is phantom knock or mabey I need to raise my fuel press?

 

[SpoolnTsi]

Do what anconover said. Make sure your base timing is set correctly. And whats your plugs like? What kinda are they? Ive seen cases of knock just from plugs

 

[92tsifwd]

Ngk BPR7ES gapped at 0.29, Strange though # 4 spark plug is always black and the rest are normal.
Timing is 8 deg actual, I have not checked base but, it should be fine. Compression is 150 accross last checked.

 

[SpoolnTsi]

Whens the last time your knock sensor was replaced?

 

[92tsifwd]

2 weeks ago from Slowboyracing.

 

[92tsifwd]

Why does the knock come back when it gets colder, denser air can't make that much of a difference can it? Do you think that the knock is caused by lifter tick or somthing?

 

[SpoolnTsi]

Why does the knock come back when it gets colder, denser air can't make that much of a difference can it? Do you think that the knock is caused by lifter tick or somthing?

No, i was just curious if it was ever replaced. When they start to go bad they dont read knock correctly. And you wont get knock from a denser, colder air. If your getting phantom knock from lifter tick it would have to be a pretty violent case of lifter tick at that rpm

 

[92tsifwd]

It is not lifter tick then causing the knock, I have been tuning it by the o2 trim mostly and timing advance not so much on knock. Now the most knock I am getting is 4 counts at low throtle but, not consistantly and the o2 trim is at 98% when getting this knock. I still need to work on these but, this is what I have right now
low th
800 26%
1600 34%
2200 34%
3200 30%
4200 12%
5000 12%
6000 12%
6400 12%
7000 12%
7400 12%

High thr
800 26%
1600 34%
2200 34%
3200 30%
4200 17%
(all Ive tuned so far)
This was tuned on the highway at 45* outside.
Low trim 89.0%
mid trim 100.0%
high trim 100.0%

 

[anconover]

low, mid, and high trims arent a factor when logging WOT runs. Did you ever see if your CAS was installed backwards? You have alot of phantom knock im assuming. You can richen up the high all day long, but if its partial throttle knock your probly not even using the high maps. Make sure the cas is installed correctly, and re-set your base timing. Your tuning is all wacked out because of this knock. Richening up wont always get rid of knock, it can cause knock, and your probly knocking from something else. Thats why your plug is probly nasty. Check plug wires too just for shits and grins, could be arcing, that can cause 43counts of knock.

 

[92tsifwd]

Do you think that my ignition coil could be bad or somthing or #4 injector stuck open mabey? I had my cas in backwards for a while and switched it back like a month ago but didn't have a logger at the time. I have a spare ignition coil and some spare 450cc injectors & new spare wires to. Do you think I should try swaping them?

 

[92tsifwd]

Also the #4 spark plug has always been black even when it was stock and even with a new head it has always bown blackish greyish smoke out the exhaust & backfired in both cars the engine has been in. I just swaped everything from the 91, and the same symtoms transfered over to the 92. It does not missfire though unless when getting the knock that is what is causing the knock? It does cut out when getting knock and the timing takes a dip too. But, my o2 trim says lean most of the time? (Over 100% fluxuwaiting)

 

[92tsifwd]

I swaped injectors ignition coil and wires and I am putting in new spark plugs also tomarrow. I will let you guys know how it runs after I get the plugs in tomarrow. 7es ngks! The # 4 spark plug was so fouled up with carbon, I don't see how it didn't miss fire. The rest were perfect though.

 

[92tsifwd]

I started it up today and it runs a s### ton better now especshaly on low throtle. and the phantom knock is gone. I am getting it tunned slowly. When O2 sencors get weak how does that effect your o2 trim? Also should the 02 trim be at 100% all the time? Why does my low fuel trim say 81.2%? It should be at 100% right? How do I make it go to 100%? Still backfires and seems as if I am running rich even though my o2 trim says I am at 100% and over and no knock at low throtle. My o2 trim stays at 100% until I give it like 50% throtle and then it goes to 128% for example. I would appriciate some ansers to the questions I asked. Thanks
Jason

 

[92tsifwd]

I forgot it was a injector stuck open in cylinder #4.