Can not find Phantom Knock cure

[Kapok6]

Alright, I have been battling PK (Phantom Knock) for over year now. I have put it the revised lifters, new knock sensor, then I took it out and filled in the knock sensor w/ JB weld as recommended on this site, and I know for a fact I am running rich. Are there any other ideas out there as to what could be causing this because I am at my witts end. The engine has 86K original miles and compression is 150 across the board. Thx in advance for the help.

 

[weith1111]

Are you getting 43 counts of knock? How are you sure it's phantom knock and not real knock? Have you tried MCCC or Seafoam, that's a cheap possible solution. I have PK but am convinced it will go away with some 3g lifters.

 

[Kapok6]

Are you getting 43 counts of knock? How are you sure it's phantom knock and not real knock? Have you tried MCCC or Seafoam, that's a cheap possible solution. I have PK but am convinced it will go away with some 3g lifters.

hits 43 at cruise. I know it's not real detonation because when I get on it and it shows knock, then I let off then slam it again it will show no knock. I thought the 3g's would fix it too, sounds better, but didn't help the knock issue. I am getting so frustrated w/ this. People have tried suggesting it is b/c of some of the mods I have on it but it acted the exact same when she was bone stock.

 

[weith1111]

Check that your CAS isn't out 180 and your timing is set correctly 5* btdc.

 

[spoolup]

Also a friend fixed his with motor mounts (he used prothanes) sounded weird but it actually fixed his.

Also I have seen cars get PK from too much fuel. Just FYI.

 

[Kapok6]

Also a friend fixed his with motor mounts (he used prothanes) sounded weird but it actually fixed his.

Also I have seen cars get PK from too much fuel. Just FYI.

I installed a prothane mount 2 days ago, the one on the drivers side. I still need to do the rest. I will check the timing next weekend.

 

[eclipsh]

You don't have any small exhaust leaks do you? I fixed one on mine and my knock count dropped dramatically.

 

[Kapok6]

You don't have any small exhaust leaks do you? I fixed one on mine and my knock count dropped dramatically.

Not that I am aware of. New exhaust manifold, turbo, o2 sensor housing, downpipe and cat back (Apex N1 from o2 sensore housing back.

 

[Kapok6]

New fuel filter, front motor mount (prothane) and seafoam, still bad Phantom Knock. Anyone know where I can get a bazooka to shoot my car with?

 

[eclipsh]

New fuel filter, front motor mount (prothane) and seafoam, still bad Phantom Knock. Anyone know where I can get a bazooka to shoot my car with?

No, but I do know of a few good cliffs you can drive/push it off of! Believe me, I've been on the lookout for them with mine! Gotta love our DSMs. *read as dripping with sarcasm* (We really need an emoticon for that...)

Is there anywhere you can get your car up on a lift and listen to it running? That would probably help you trace the noise. Did you reinstall your exhaust heat sheilding and if so is it tight? I'd also reccomend you go get a mechanic's stethoscope from a good source like Snapon or the like. It'll help you find any noises in the engine bay.

 

[Kapok6]

No, but I do know of a few good cliffs you can drive/push it off of! Believe me, I've been on the lookout for them with mine! Gotta love our DSMs. *read as dripping with sarcasm* (We really need an emoticon for that...)

Is there anywhere you can get your car up on a lift and listen to it running? That would probably help you trace the noise. Did you reinstall your exhaust heat sheilding and if so is it tight? I'd also reccomend you go get a mechanic's stethoscope from a good source like Snapon or the like. It'll help you find any noises in the engine bay.

That might be fine if there was real knock/tick but that isn't the issue. The issue is it is sensing detonation when there isn't any. Detonation is not something you can hear audibly anyway. But to answer your question, no, i did not reinstall the heatshield. The heatshield or lack thereof should not have naything to do with sensing knock anyway. If you have nay more ideas I am open to hearing them.

 

[SlowChild3]

I'm in your boat too, I read a post of some one saying rewire alt. give KS more voltage to read knock better, I searched the site but found nothing.

 

[Kapok6]

I'm in your boat too, I read a post of some one saying rewire alt. give KS more voltage to read knock better, I searched the site but found nothing.

What was this website?

 

[SlowChild3]

DSMtuners.com The only site I look at. What are you thinking?!?!

 

[eclipsh]

It is my understanding that knock sensors are just microphones. So any noise (like my leaking exhaust) will be picked up by them, so listening for any noises could be helpful.

Aside from that I would check for shorts and electrical issues. Do you have a power line going to an amplifier that might be causing some interference? How does your wiring harness look? Is it crispified? Just throwing some more ideas out there...

 

[Kapok6]

No power line going to amp. Wiring harness looks fine.

 

[eclipsh]

OK, so...

1. The sensor and harness are in good shape.
2. You're running rich, so detonation is not likely.

I'd still say double check for noises (its free and can't hurt.)

How is your ECU's health? Any leakage?

Do you ever get the knock if you aren't moving?

 

[weith1111]

At this point why don't you go with the PK removal code that someone wrote? It's not like you really have 43 counts of knock all the time, or else you wouldn't have a functioning motor still.

 

[Kapok6]

No knock at idle, just when I give it some gas, but pre boost, and not consistant. ECU just started leaking a little bit but nothing major, no burns or anything yet. I know the ECU isn't the problem either b/c I put another one in with no leakage and still have the same issue. I can't have a coded chip yet b/c the eprom I have in my closet needs rebuilt, the guy I bought it off of didn't tell em there is a small burn on the underside of the circuit board. There is one more thing that I can think of to try other than the chip that may work. The knock sensore will fit into the threds all over the back of the block including th AC bolt holes so I am going to put it into a diff hole and see what happens.

 

[weith1111]

^^Good idea. I'm interested to see how it works. Would it be worthwhile to put some more dampening on there. Like cover the sensor in RTV before you screw it in?

If that still doesn't work for you, have you tried another KS? Maybe yours is just busted/too sensitive?

 

[Kapok6]

This knock sensor is brand new, then I took it out and stuffed it w/ JB weld. So I don't think the issue is w/ the actual sensor. I will let you know if I discover anything new this weekend.

 

[Kapok6]

OK all, I installed another KS in a hole just below and toward the drivers side of the block from the original knock sensor hole. I noticed A big diff in how often she picked up PK. I will continue to monitor this and see how it works out and will keep you posted.

On another note, I can not keep my car started, she won't stay started when I start her. She will go up to 1500-2000 rpm, then just die, but after I run her for a few min she will stay started. I have a working ISC in there so I know that is not the problem. IF anyone has any ideas on this issue I am totally open to suggestions.

 

[fiveSFE]

i was having the same problem as you with knock, it would go to 43 counts just cruising aroudn boosting 2 or 3 psi, i was convinced it was pk, i couldnt get rid of it. i had a cheap Johnny race car i/c laying around from my old car, so i slapped that on there as my sunday project and took it up to 20 psi with absolutly no knock at all, it was amazing.

i have similar mods as you, some people get away with using the stock side mount with the 16g, but it was terrible for me. everyonce in a while after if been sitting at a light i will still get 8 to 15 counts of knock, but after air gets flowing threw the fmic and cools it the knock disapears.


oh and as for the car having trouble staying started, i am having the same problem, i to have Greddy emanage, the car started having problems stayign started when cold about 1 day after i installed it. once the car warms up though it runs fine.

 

[Kapok6]

i was having the same problem as you with knock, it would go to 43 counts just cruising aroudn boosting 2 or 3 psi, i was convinced it was pk, i couldnt get rid of it. i had a cheap Johnny race car i/c laying around from my old car, so i slapped that on there as my sunday project and took it up to 20 psi with absolutly no knock at all, it was amazing.

i have similar mods as you, some people get away with using the stock side mount with the 16g, but it was terrible for me. everyonce in a while after if been sitting at a light i will still get 8 to 15 counts of knock, but after air gets flowing threw the fmic and cools it the knock disapears.


oh and as for the car having trouble staying started, i am having the same problem, i to have Greddy emanage, the car started having problems stayign started when cold about 1 day after i installed it. once the car warms up though it runs fine.

I don't have the e-manage installed yet. it is sittin gin my closet. I am a little intimidated to put in on myself as much as I want too. I have done all the work on my car myself so I would like to keep the trend going. As for the knock, it can't be b/k of the 16G b/c she was like this when she was bone stock.

 

[falcone4g63]

Have you checked your timing marks? I had PK like yours, it started after a shitty timing belt job done by the local Dodge dealer, thats what I think was the problem. Anyway it was like that for about a year and a half and one day I was driving to work and whenever I touched the gas it would shoot to 43 knock. I have a knockbox so I could see it as I was driving. And I was so frustrated by it at this point I just floored it and the car died, it would turn over but not start.

Long story short I pulled the motor months later and found out it jumped timing and bent all the intake valves.I don't know if that helps but it might be worth looking into.