phantom knock?

[fubar_mdw]

I have been reading alot for the past few weeks on all kinds of knock
in our dsm's.
so far i havnt read about someone having the same exact problems I am having
so i hope this hasnt already been aswered.
The problem-
i just rebuilt my 95 gsx with a 6 bolt swap,
the valves all got bent so i ordered a remaned one from cimotorsports.net
got the head and put on a new cometic head gasket with arp head studs,
replaced all the gaskets and put the lifters in that where in the old head wich only had a few thousand miles on them (around 4k)
set the timing and it was off a little bit but not even half a tooth, and set base timing to 5
like i read on here to do.
when i got it all back together i went to start it and herd this tapping sound coming from the cas intake area, afraid of a spun bearing i dropped the oil pan and checked out the bearings but they looked fine,
the gas has been sitting for some time (5 months) and the injectors are great, new spark plugs and wires ive put some 93 octane in it and played with the cas a little but im almost certain the noise is coming from the cas or near it,
also when i pull the number 4 spark plug wire off the noise goes away, no other plug being pulled off makes the noise going away.
also tried the stethascope thing and the noise is deff not coming from the block,
any help would be great, i havnt drove the car at all since i put the head on, and ive read about new heads being noisy but id like to make sure before i drive it,
thanks

 

[fubar_mdw]

I'd be interested in getting with you - to strengthen the DSM community in this area and because I've been hunting down this knock/tick/brrack sound too. I've heard people say many of the same things you did - wrist pin, rod bearing and now maybe lifters. I hear that brrack when I cold start, then it clicks or ticks (whatever) both at idle and when I accelerate. I don't hear it when I'm coasting and it goes away at idle when I press the clutch in. (p.s. DSMer's - It's got a brand new T.O. Bearing <not the metal one>). The whole motor was rebuilt about 4K miles ago and the head was fitted with new lifters - or so says the machinist that rebuilt it (it was my first time using him and having a 4g63 rebuilt).

The car drives like a dream otherwise and gets 22-24 mpg consistently. Does this sound like your sound/situation at all? Maybe we can help each other. Or maybe the DSMer's can help both of us. I'm off work this Saturday and will be working on mine so let me know something.

i would love to get together and talk dsm,
but saturday i have to work all day till sunday morning,
i have thursday (today) and friday off though and sunday and monday.
my knock is more consistant at idle though unless it starts idling at 1500 rpms then it just about completly goes away. and aslo like you said if im coasting its gone to

 

[Meklo_4G63t]

i would love to get together and talk dsm,
but saturday i have to work all day till sunday morning,
i have thursday (today) and friday off though and sunday and monday.
my knock is more consistant at idle though unless it starts idling at 1500 rpms then it just about completly goes away. and aslo like you said if im coasting its gone to

Man now that sounds so familar with a buddys car of mine that didnt listen to me and ended up blowing his piston rod out the bottom end of his car. I knocked hard until 1500 rpm and then went away. Please check your heads because i hate to hear u lost an engine like he did. Who ever did your head job and timing u need to slap the shit out of them. Also just for when u have the head of check your piston heads.

 

[fubar_mdw]

Man now that sounds so familar with a buddys car of mine that didnt listen to me and ended up blowing his piston rod out the bottom end of his car. I knocked hard until 1500 rpm and then went away. Please check your heads because i hate to hear u lost an engine like he did. Who ever did your head job and timing u need to slap the shit out of them. Also just for when u have the head of check your piston heads.

I bought a brand new head for it from a trust worthy dsm shop.
i put the head on and i did check the pistons when the head was off.
the head that was on it jumped timing by about 5 teath maybe more i dont really remember and smacked the valves.
there was lil blemishes where the valves looked like they contacted the pistons, i checked thhe bearings out right after i pulled the head off and played with each rod while i was under the car (pulled the oil pan off) and everything apeared to be in good order.
like i said before i have a mechanics stethascope and the knock is deff not coming from the block but from the fuel rail area.
i found a garage that has a diagnostics machine about a mile from my house im thinking about driving it there and seeing what they say

 

[fubar_mdw]

im sure it wont help but i did take some pics of the crank and stuff while i was down ther but all the caps are still on,
the pics are here fubar_mdw/My eclipse - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

 

[Meklo_4G63t]

im sure it wont help but i did take some pics of the crank and stuff while i was down ther but all the caps are still on,
the pics are here fubar_mdw/My eclipse - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

Yeah can't really see anything

 

[fubar_mdw]

Yeah can't really see anything

ya i didnt think so.
i took them not thinking there would be a problem but
when i took the caps off they all looked fine and i had a freind there to
to check them out as well

 

[fubar_mdw]

When i take it to get the diagnotics done on it
would that show if it is a rod bearing or not?

 

[fubar_mdw]

was told today that rod knock would cause the car to feel and ride like ass
going down the road any truth to this

 

[Meklo_4G63t]

was told today that rod knock would cause the car to feel and ride like ass
going down the road any truth to this

Yes it is and u need to take the heads off to get that redone...that guy should have caught that when he put the head back together

 

[fubar_mdw]

Yes it is and u need to take the heads off to get that redone...that guy should have caught that when he put the head back together

to get the bottom end redone?
and if theres truth to that when i drove it the car
it drove smooth and easy

 

[fubar_mdw]

can you put the cas in upside down,
i saw a dsm today and the wires where on top mine are on bottom
is there any difference

 

[MountainDew]

can you put the cas in upside down,
i saw a dsm today and the wires where on top mine are on bottom
is there any difference

That's probably your problem then.

Did you install it properly? RRE tells you exactly how to do it.. Set the car to BTDC (Before Top Dead Center) then look on the CAS, on the part that slides into the cam, there will be the little notch part with a groove in it, that should be pointing up towards the cylinder head. Drop it in, bolt it up and set your base timing.

Also, if you have a green top, I wouldn't even bother putting it back in. You'll get the random misfire, 95% you will. You want to look for a blacktop CAS off a 92.5-94 because that sensor was on a 7bolt motor and uses the "hall effect".

Actually just identify which cam sensor you have. It is possible you have the 1990 one, with the really long wires on it. I believe the wires where on the bottom. But if you have the plug style one, then yes it is installed incorrectly.

 

[fubar_mdw]

That's probably your problem then.

Did you install it properly? RRE tells you exactly how to do it.. Set the car to BTDC (Before Top Dead Center) then look on the CAS, on the part that slides into the cam, there will be the little notch part with a groove in it, that should be pointing up towards the cylinder head. Drop it in, bolt it up and set your base timing.

Also, if you have a green top, I wouldn't even bother putting it back in. You'll get the random misfire, 95% you will. You want to look for a blacktop CAS off a 92.5-94 because that sensor was on a 7bolt motor and uses the "hall effect".

Actually just identify which cam sensor you have. It is possible you have the 1990 e, with the really long wires on it. I believe the wires where on the bottom. But if you have the plug style one, then yes it is installed incorrectly.

My wires are very long and you cant unplug the wires from the cas,
when i put the mechanics stethascope on the fuel rail anywhere on it i deff here this ticking sound very strong and no where else what you think that could mean

 

[Calan]

when i put the mechanics stethascope on the fuel rail anywhere on it i deff here this ticking sound very strong and no where else what you think that could mean

It means your injectors are working

 

[MountainDew]

My wires are very long and you cant unplug the wires from the cas,
when i put the mechanics stethascope on the fuel rail anywhere on it i deff here this ticking sound very strong and no where else what you think that could mean

Not really sure, could just be the injectors. Any possible way you could post a video of the noise? That might help diagnose this problem.

Also when you installed your CAS, was the motor at BTDC and the notch pointing the correct way?

 

[fubar_mdw]

actually i dont believe it was i think i just put it on.

 

[fubar_mdw]

so what would i do put the car at tdc and take the cas off and put it back on with the mark on the cas the right way is that what you are saying

 

[MountainDew]

RRE Instructions

Scroll down to step number 4. Basically just set your CAS down and the same position as in the picture (holes for the bolts towards the bottom and right) then line the marks up. Make sure its at BTDC and then slap it on and set your base timing.

I believe if you install it incorrectly, your timing will be way off.

 

[fubar_mdw]

RRE Instructions

Scroll down to step number 4. Basically just set your CAS down and the same position as in the picture (holes for the bolts towards the bottom and right) then line the marks up. Make sure its at BTDC and then slap it on and set your base timing.

I believe if you install it incorrectly, your timing will be way off.

thanks alot ill go out right now and try this and post if the noise goes away or not

 

[MountainDew]

thanks alot ill go out right now and try this and post if the noise goes away or not

No problem. Can't guarantee it'll fix anything, but if its installed incorrectly, you'll want to fix that anyways. If the noise continues, like I said, try and get a video if you can. DSMs make all sorts of strange noises, it's hard to pinpoint which one in writing.

 

[fubar_mdw]

hey got the video hope this link works
YouTube - my dsm

 

[Calan]

That sounds really strange. Does it actually sound just like the video?

I definitely hear what sounds like something tapping on thin aluminum. And it is in time with the firing (you can really tell towards the end).

What is the "thwap thwap thwap" sound?

Can you shoot a longer video, maybe up closer from different angles?

 

[fubar_mdw]

the thwap is something not of my car, ignore that not sure where that came from

 

[Calan]

the thwap is something not of my car, ignore that not sure where that came from

I don't understand that. Is there another car running there in the video? It sure sounded like it was coming from it. The sound changes frequency with your motor.

Sort of like a cross between a flapping belt and backwards played Led Zepplen record

 

[fubar_mdw]

i didnt hear the sound until i watched the video never herd it before either just that ticking sound.
just watched it again i have no idea where that thawp came from