Boost leaks in Odd Places

[oldman]

thanks, My buddy told me I might have a not fully closing wastegate flapper as well as soon as he heard me say it was taking until around 5grand to build the 16psi he said add washers to your wastegate and that should fix it, i just got done adding the washers but i wont beable to test it until tomorrow hopefully thats what it is tho.

I have said it many times and I'll say it again, stop these wot runs. Yes it's possible that the wastegate is not closed fully but you can easily check that by removing the actuator arm and see if the flapper is fully closed with the arm on. The problem with these WOTs is that knowing you have boost leak, you continue to over work your turbo. You also have the worst kind of boost leak, let's call it crankcase boost leak. If you don't want to do more damage to valve seal and rings, stop focusing on trying to boost over 16psi instead focus on the problems you have discovered through these three pages.

 

[mastadogg2]

alright, Im going to see if this does any difference tho, then after i know if it was the problem I will then begin to focus on the head and get a leak down test and post the leak down test results.

 

[oldman]

alright, Im going to see if this does any difference tho, then after i know if it was the problem I will then begin to focus on the head and get a leak down test and post the leak down test results.

I'm referring more to the fact that oil is now leaking out of the turbo seal, unless we have some kind of mis-understanding again. Even if the test shows that the actuator arm is actually too long, you still need to replace the turbo anyway. Is oil coming out of the turbo seal or not? Oil all over licp and ic? Speed will come again but you must address these problems first.

 

[mastadogg2]

When I was referring to the smoke comming out of the turbo housing area, I was talking about right after i started the car after doing my wet test, so it was burning the oil i put in there from the wet test... it wasnt just smoking on its own, but it was kinda like a smoke leak test and it was showing i had some type of leak near my turbo area i believe it was comming directly out of where the turbo housing bolts to the exhaust manifold with those 4 long bolts. That could very well be a huge lag issue infact I remember I had to rig it down there and use a extra long bolt for one of the holes and put a nut at the end. I guess that nut came loose. I hope I didnt confuse you

 

[mastadogg2]

Alright oldman Heres some more info for ya so you can help me trouble shoot my turbo. I decided to take off the wastegate actuator and a full check on it and it works fine, I can pull the rod and it gets vacuum from the nipple.

Now for the turbo, When im freely spinning it with my fingers I can get it to spin but I did notice as im spinning it sometimes it takes a slow halt to stop and sometimes it just stops with no hesitation like something is rubbing or something.. This is a sign of a bad turbo seal? When i wobble the wheel up and down i get about a penny thickness of play. Let me know what you think! appreciate it.

 

[oldman]

Alright oldman Heres some more info for ya so you can help me trouble shoot my turbo. I decided to take off the wastegate actuator and a full check on it and it works fine, I can pull the rod and it gets vacuum from the nipple.

Now for the turbo, When im freely spinning it with my fingers I can get it to spin but I did notice as im spinning it sometimes it takes a slow halt to stop and sometimes it just stops with no hesitation like something is rubbing or something.. This is a sign of a bad turbo seal? When i wobble the wheel up and down i get about a penny thickness of play. Let me know what you think! appreciate it.

I'm pretty it's on it's way out, it should spin freely all the time. I suspect you may have blew the turbo doing all those WOT runs with a major boost leak, this is how I blew my 16G last year after a fmic kit install before I became leak test believer, I also suspect that's probably what happen to Mike's turbo as well. Try blowing air into a balloon with a big leak to keep it at the same volume, now you understand what you were doing to your turbo.

 

[mastadogg2]

yup for sure, and when i first bought this car i beat it to death and im positive i overspun it because i was driving it with no boost control for a bit cause i was stupid, but i just removed the turbo and i cant get the o2 off the turbo housing tho i was using rust eater and wd40 any suggestions? i cant wait to get a new turbo now or do you recommend i just rebuild the one i got? i was thinkin about just getting new everything so i have a warranty let me know your opinions on this

 

[oldman]

Unbolt the o2 housing from the down pipe and remove it along with the turbo, you can then put it on a vise which will make it easier. As for the replacement turbo, you will have to make that decision based on your goals and of course financial situation.

 

[mastadogg2]

took a pic of the turbo uninstall fun http://www.localnerds.com/fusion/turbofun.JPG

 

[mastadogg2]

Unbolt the o2 housing from the down pipe and remove it along with the turbo, you can then put it on a vise which will make it easier. As for the replacement turbo, you will have to make that decision based on your goals and of course financial situation.

I got the turbo fully out as you can see by the picture i took from my window in the house, im just having trouble getting 3 bolts loose on the o2 housing to remove it from the turbo housing i might have to get my uncle to break those loose, hes a mechanic so he has everything needed to do so.

 

[oldman]

those bolts are known to snap, soak them with pb blaster over night before your next attempt.

 

[mastadogg2]

Will do, I appreciate all your help and advice ones again I will keep you updated on what I decide to do. take care

-tom

 

[EclipseGST-95]

I hope you mean the throttle body otherwise you just may be the biggest moron around.

yea yea sorry i was on the phone with someone i didnt wanna talk to while i was posting n didnt check it until tonight but yea thats what i meant...

 

[mastadogg2]

Alright new turbo's on the way. Ordered a MHI evo3 16g =)

 

[mastadogg2]

bringing a old thread back to life with sucessfull results for once. the boosting issue i was having was due to the transmission shifting into the wastegate acuator.. problem fixed now and running a evo3 16g at 20psi with no issues.

 

[BlknBlue2G]

Car was running fine with T25. Installed a 14b being fed oil from the head with modified 2g drain line. Car began emitting lots of white smoke soon after install. It smoked only at idle, not between shifts or while cruising. I installed another turbo but this time actually did a boost leak test. Found a massive leak at the IAC, fixed, and a smaller leak at the BISS and the throttle plate shaft. I replaced the o-ring on the BISS and its good, but I have to wait on shaft seals for my non-serviceable throttle body. I did hear some leaking through the oil cap though. Still smoking (white) really bad.

I assumed HG so I did a dry compression test; 190-187-190-185 across the board. Pretty good for a motor with 115,000 miles. When removing the plugs, they all looked normal except that number 2 smoked a little out of the plug hole. The tops of the cylinders were not at all clean either.

I will be performing another boost leak test when I get the shaft seals since it leaks out really quick as of now. I have been reading other threads but looking for some advice,

Mike

 

[mastadogg2]

Car was running fine with T25. Installed a 14b being fed oil from the head with modified 2g drain line. Car began emitting lots of white smoke soon after install. It smoked only at idle, not between shifts or while cruising. I installed another turbo but this time actually did a boost leak test. Found a massive leak at the IAC, fixed, and a smaller leak at the BISS and the throttle plate shaft. I replaced the o-ring on the BISS and its good, but I have to wait on shaft seals for my non-serviceable throttle body. I did hear some leaking through the oil cap though. Still smoking (white) really bad.

I assumed HG so I did a dry compression test; 190-187-190-185 across the board. Pretty good for a motor with 115,000 miles. When removing the plugs, they all looked normal except that number 2 smoked a little out of the plug hole. The tops of the cylinders were not at all clean either.

I will be performing another boost leak test when I get the shaft seals since it leaks out really quick as of now. I have been reading other threads but looking for some advice,

Mike

I highly doubt your compression numbers are that high, but on another note you just basically described symtom's of valve seals leaking. if there only leaking alittle you dont need to worry about it.

 

[oldman]

You can still find out where is air leaking into the crankcase while you wait for the shaft seals. In fact, I think your crankcase leak is way more serious than the shaft seals and can very well be the reason for smoking, yes un-burnt oil can seem whitish. Follow the steps given through out this whole thread to determine where the leak is, I will sum it up for you.

1. Move the tester to TB elbow to see if turbo seal is the source of the leak.

2. If problem persists, disable the pcv to see if it's the source of the leak.

3. If problem still persists, given good compression numbers, it would most likely be the valve seals.

modified 2g drain line.

Please explain. One of the most common cause of a smoking turbo is poor oil return capacity, this can be caused by either small/kinked return line or excessive crancase pressure like mentioned above.

I installed another turbo

Are both turbos 14b and used?

I will be performing another boost leak test when I get the shaft seals since it leaks out really quick as of now. I have been reading other threads but looking for some advice,

My suggestion is to focus on finishing the boost leak test minus the shaft seal for now, this will help pin point the cause of your smoking issue. In the mean time, try and stay off the throttle/boost until you figure this out.

 

[BlknBlue2G]

I know that the numbers from the compression test seemed high, but the tester was brand new and these numbers were where it stopped increasing and were verified with a second test. Maybe the tester is bad.

The oil drain line is just the stock 2g that has enlarged the holes to fit on the 14b. Both turbos were 14bs.

I have been testing at the elbow but have not tried disabling the PCV since it is bran new at the time of the install.

Could a huge vacuum leak cause the car to smoke as it has been? Its really bad.

Mike

 

[oldman]

I have been testing at the elbow but have not tried disabling the PCV since it is bran new at the time of the install.

Even brand new OEM ones are known to leak now, you should test it before install. You also need to perform the leak test in the same exactly order given. Start from the turbo inlet first before the TB test, observe the pressure differences in case if there are multiple leaks. In other words, just because the oil cap is still leaking at the TB test doesn't mean the turbo seal isn't, pressure differences if any, between the turbo inlet test and TB test will tell you for sure.

Could a huge vacuum leak cause the car to smoke as it has been? Its really bad.

No, not white smoke. Take it one step at a time and finish that leak test first. BTW open the oil cap during the pressure test, you don't want to make the problem any worse.

 

[BlknBlue2G]

Found some more small leaks. The BOV flange gasket is leaking and so is the j-pipe gasket. Bad news is that I heard bubbling through the oil cap while pressurizing the system. There were no bubbles coming through the coolant cap but the level was down a bit. I did not fully burp the system before driving it last time though so it may have been air left in there. Also the catch can from the head to the intake was a little clogged. I am going to fix the 2 above leaks and get a new catch can. Do I need to redo the compression test or have we figured out where the signs are pointing??

 

[oldman]

Sorry have been away for a while but better late then never.

Bad news is that I heard bubbling through the oil cap while pressurizing the system. There were no bubbles coming through the coolant cap but the level was down a bit. I did not fully burp the system before driving it last time though so it may have been air left in there.

Bubbling though the oil cap has nothing to do with coolant, it's air passing though the turbo seal => oil return line => oil pan, reason why step two is to move the tester to TB elbow to see if leaking into the crankcase stops. Like it has been mentioned many times in this thread, this is OK as long as the seal is not leaking during operation which you're so it can definitely be the turbo seal.

Do I need to redo the compression test or have we figured out where the signs are pointing??

Follow through with the rest of the tests to make sure the turbo is the only source of leakage. When my oil catch can was clogged, it not only took out my turbo but valve seals as well. Hopefully in your case it would only be the turbo. Good luck.

 

[BlknBlue2G]

After thinking about it I couldnt figure out why the bublling would be coolant.

I fixed the leaks at the bov and j-pipe flange. Now the only leak I can find is the throttle body at the gaskets and shaft seals. They should be here tomorrow and I will install them and re-test.

 

[EclipseGST-95]

After thinking about it I couldnt figure out why the bublling would be coolant.

I fixed the leaks at the bov and j-pipe flange. Now the only leak I can find is the throttle body at the gaskets and shaft seals. They should be here tomorrow and I will install them and re-test.

i actually ordered the shaft seals from mach v but i talked to a tech at mitsu and he says the throttle bodies are not supposed to be worked on what so ever for any reason and thats why they sell the whole throttle body as one unit from the dealership... i checked out the shaft seal uninstall install directions and it talks about the throttle shaft screws that are loc tighted in...if you strip one of those screws you are SCREWED.... thats why i am hesitant to installing them... its a very very minor boost leak when i pump 10 psi in my pipes from the turbo inlet but it definitely wont hold pressure in the pipes it will drop from that leak.... let me know how the install on those shaft seals goes...pm or post...
thanks in advance...

 

[BlknBlue2G]

I had another throttle body laying around and tried to follow the vfaq up until replacing the seals. Those screws are definitely in there tight and I mangled them up real good (tool box with assortment of screw drivers was at work), but I was able to get the old seals out without hurting the shaft or the outer bore. They almost fell apart when I touched them. I don't see why you need to remove the plate from the shaft, install will be just sliding the on and pressing them in place, around the shaft.

I will let you know how it goes.