are HUGE intercoolers needed?

[Black95TSIawd]

ok gentlemen. I took a look at the race car from http://www.farnorthracing.com/ as a prime example of a DSM road coarse car. He has won multiple championships and made 348awhp with a big28 at 22psi. All that with just a griffin core measuring 24X7. That core also is top to bottom which makes the distance for air to travel only 7inches and has inlet and outlet on the same side making me wonder if air is getting to all 24 inches of endtank. I've read multiple threads stating that if your gonna go top to bottom, at least have the inlet and outlet on opposite sides. Small core, small turbo, decent whp, and a couple championships. Sounds like his intercooler isnt such a problem.

 

[EclipseOwner95]

350whp on a t28 is pretty impressive imo.

 

[2gGSX]

348 whp on an AWD with a T28 is definitely impressive, I'm assuming on race gas though.

 

[Black95TSIawd]

it probably is on racegas considering its just a race car. But people in this thread are stating that you need a huge core for roadracing yada yada because your on the throttle more. This car is proving the opposite. Small core, bad endtank design, and these guys are still kicking ass in a kick ass car.

 

[ClipseT96]

Figured i'd add my .02 since a lot of other are. IF you really want a fmic sprayer then just spend that money you were going to spend on it, on a nitrous kit. Then route the purge valve so it sprays on the fmic. So instead of wasting the nitrous, its going on your fmic.

 

[mavisky]

ok gentlemen. I took a look at the race car from http://www.farnorthracing.com/ as a prime example of a DSM road coarse car. He has won multiple championships and made 348awhp with a big28 at 22psi. All that with just a griffin core measuring 24X7. That core also is top to bottom which makes the distance for air to travel only 7inches and has inlet and outlet on the same side making me wonder if air is getting to all 24 inches of endtank. I've read multiple threads stating that if your gonna go top to bottom, at least have the inlet and outlet on opposite sides. Small core, small turbo, decent whp, and a couple championships. Sounds like his intercooler isnt such a problem.

Dennis's car is more of an autocross car than a road race car.

 

[Black95TSIawd]

my apologies. But my arguement still stands.

 

[suicidal2af]

my apologies. But my arguement still stands.

Well, I don't think that's a great example. You're looking at fairly low speeds for short to moderate amounts of time with an autocross car. Roadracing is going to have you doing higher speeds and running for longer periods of time....which is more stressful on the IC.

 

[GPTourer]

What is your application? If you are drag racing, heat soak isn't a big deal. If you are road racing, heat soak is a big deal. So, that is why shep can get away with a small intercooler.

Scott

I'm sorry, I must have missed something along the way. What did we prove that Shep was "getting away with?" What benefit is he getting by not using the biggest IC he can cram under his bumper? Why does this guy need this IC?

 

[Black95TSIawd]

greg collier. He road races with a big16g and his car is purty darn quick with just a sidemount.

 

[dynatos]

All of these 'he makes this hp with this intercooler' is useless. If i uprade everything else except my intercooler i will still see much inprovement. THere are just too many variables in this entire discussion.

As far as the large intercooler, and to those saying "putting more heat to your radiator".. if the entire core, as stated by victory, isn't getting very hot then it really doesn't matter. As defiant said, it's comprimise. Large intercooler, better cooling capacity but more time to presurize the area. Smaller intercooler, lower capacitiy but worse flow.

Now - isn't it that each 20 degrees cooler intake air equates to 3 more hp roughly? I think the pressure loss versus cooling area would end up close to the same performance level : within reason.

The point of the intercooler is to keep the air cool, which keep combusion stable. If you have a core the same size as shep's, my opinion is you'd be getting the job done. If it's a money thing, i think you'd find much more combustion stability with water/alcohol injection.

I can just imagine that the same setup dyno'd with a smaller (like sheps) and bigger (like TSiGoesPsSsSst) would yeild close to the same results. Though i gotta admit, TSiGoesPsSsSst 's intercooler, no matter what hp gains/losses looks sweet..... :laugh:

 

[pboglio]

Ask Archer racing how big of an I.C. they ran on their cars. That thing was huge even by today's standards. I believe they mentioned they had a core that was +30" wide and as tall as the radiator. Mentioned something about cutting the radiator saddle apart and rewelding the front portion of the car to fit it. I'd use them as a standard. Most amateurs that road race use a sidemount because a front mount is punishing on the cooling system, can't even imagine it on the track.

 

[Black95TSIawd]

hmm, more of you who stated to get a huge core also said that it looks so "cool." I'll take it as that is the only reason you bought one so huge. The picture of the first car i put up in my original post also road coarses. He was winning the SCC ultimate challenge till his turbo blew in the road coarse where he had to run N/A for the rest of his run. I'll leave this thread that the majority of dsmers buy such huge cores just so their bumpers look "cool".

 

[GPTourer]

Your oppinion is actually the first negative opinion Ive received of it.

Actually, I don't care for it either, but I believe in the saying of, "If you don't have anything nice to say...don't say it." But whatever floats your boat man. I think Flash Blue (if that's what its called) looks good on your ride. To me, the full stock mouth look like Boiler2's Hahn or Redturbo's black car looks the best. Even the smaller NPR looks pretty good to me because of that nice curved edge of the end tanks - I can't explain why. I would hate to have to cut my bumper (the opening) because I'd notice any small imperfection and it would drive me nuts having to look at it every day - because I know I'm flickted when it comes to straight lines.

 

[Victory]

Just another example for you two to think about. Years ago I ran a 92' Talon with 16G, AFC, 3" exhaust, ported 02 housing (this was before I started producing the tubular ones) and a horribly inefficient Starion intercooler. The intercooler was by todays standards too small and of a poor design. My car ran consistent 12.1 @ 113mph. Best MPH was 115mph. Unfortunately the car was stole the following year when I place the Tubular 02 Housing and new intercooler on the car. Point is, read my previous post, you don't need something that is massive to go fast. In fact a well matched system is the way to go.

When purchasing an intercooler consider what your trying to achieve and match the product to your application. Keeping in mind the cool factor too! For the record the 24 x 10x 3.5 inch system we sell will support 700 HP before it begins to see unacceptable back pressure levels. Most 10 second cars generally produce between 500 to 650 HP. This size should be adequate for 95% of the cars out there.

BluemeanieTSi, that's a cool color on that car.


Scott Belcastro
Victory Performance Equipment

 

[98GSX_MTX]

An intercooler can only do soo much. I noticed only a slight reduction in knock when going from the front SMIC to a HAHN FMIC.

I also still get some knock even when running a fairly rich mixture in 20* weather. I can safely say that I am not heat soaking in this kind of weather.

The average fella probably won't gain much going with anything bigger than the EVO8 FMIC. If you really want results just run H2O injection with windshield washer fluid.

I think 50% of the gain of a FMIC comes from getting rid of the semi-restrictive SMIC.

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

Listen I've deleted all the crap, arguing, and BS from this thread. Try to keep it on topic this time and if I start seeing flames and insults I will start banning.

 

[Black95TSIawd]

Please guys, lets try and keep this thing open.

back on topic. I've posted three examples of well built vehicles with intercoolers that are NOT huge. The first car was from www.dsmporn.com and the car was built at RRE(i think). Very well rounded car. Second, the farnorthracing car with a not so huge intercooler that runs autocross which i'm sure lasts longer thn 10 to 14 seconds like a drage race, and lastly Greg Collier's race car. Big16g, and a side mount. He won a 2004 championship with that car. I honestly feel that a HUGE intercooler is not needed. If, all youre going to do is reply with, well it looks cool, X out this window or go to another thread. Justify why you have a core that size, or not.

 

[twoboosted]

So what are the opinions on the dejon race core? After reading all 3 pages maybe this intercooler might be tad be large for the average dsmer?



The size is ........28"wide x 10.8"hi x 3"thk side to side flow core. End tanks are 1/8" thk aluminum. Inlet and outlet are 2 1/2"dia.

 

[L2RTSiAWD]

Too answer your question in my opinion, No I don'think huge intercoolers are needed in every case.

I would base it on the turbo you are running.

Here was my scenario.

I had an L2R on a Apex'i intercooler with the Silvia(small) core. I switched to a spearco 24x12x3.5 inch core and short-routed pipes and it made a world of difference in effects of quicker spool-up, and more timing and less heat soak driving around at 20psi plus the car ran all-around better with a more effcient core and minus 3-feet of extra piping(probably cleared up some boost leaks as well)

Did it make my car run a little hotter? Yes in 110 degree AZ heat I had to wire a fan switch so I can turn both fans on while driving around town, or the car would try to run around 219-222 degrees.

Now that I've sold alot of my parts I have this huge IC on a T-25. Is that the best way to do it, hell no. The IC is so big compared to the t-25 spool-up has suffered. The only reason it's on the car is because the turbo will be upgraded again and the IC is still better quality that the stock pipes and SMIC.

 

[2gForMe]

is this too big?

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[The Foos]

I'm sorry, I must have missed something along the way. What did we prove that Shep was "getting away with?" What benefit is he getting by not using the biggest IC he can cram under his bumper? Why does this guy need this IC?

Since Shep is only running for 8/9/10 seconds at a time, heatsoak shouldn't be his main concern. I assume (I don't know him, so I'm only guessing) that he is more concerned with volumetric efficency, flow rate, and pressure drop across the IC. He can deal with heatsoak by spraying the IC down inbetween runs, icing it, etc. You don't have those options when road racing.

So, Shep can get away with running a small IC because he is probably unconcerned with heatsoak. For street, road racing, or anyother application where you are running more than 10 seconds at a time, you can't do that.

Hope that clears it up.

Scott

 

[Syndicate13]

Does anyone have any hard numbers or reviews on the NPR core? I've been using it on my car for some time now and I almost always seem to run into knock in 4th gear. I'm wondering if it's starting to heatsoak.

 

[RU2SLOW?]

I've been looking at the smaller 1G intercooler (32x7x2.8 cooler/25x7x2.8 core) that jrprp1 sells on Ebay, but it seems to be shorter (height) and longer (width) than most of the ones that have been mentioned in this thread. My initial thoughts ar that being wider it will see more incoming air than the taller cores that many people cut their bumpers for on 1Gs (which I really don't want to do). After reading through this thread, though, I'm still confused if this would be too small for a 50 trim or if it would be a very good happy medium- the difference in dimensions is throwing me off in comparisons, What do you all think?

He doesn't have an auction up for the 1G kit I was talking about right now bt it sells for $675 if anyone knows what I'm talking about. Here's the link to the SIMILAR 2G kit:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7939019581&category=33742

 

[97TSIAWD]

Just for an example here is my intercooler. It fits perfect a little snip on the bumper, but keeps the fog lights. The pipes for it are 2.5" which are a good size. Now it flows more then is needed for my small 16g which is fine, and if I ever decided to put a 20g on it would also be enough. And would carry me into the 11's easily. Currently the intercooler was on when the car went 12.0 at 115 mph. Some people have put huge intercoolers on when they are not needed but that is their choice, whatever works for you, but you should buy a cooler that is big enough and not too small.

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Also the core is a top to bottem design.