A little long but need your help, regarding smoking turbo.

[nightspeed87]

Ok I hope someone can help me here and not just read over this and skip to the next thread.

My engine has 4k on it approx, 6bolt no b/s shafts and had a stock 14b set up on it
even stock oil lines to the turbo...
The turbo started smoking oil... I never tried to fix it and drove it 3k with it smoking under boost ( bad smoking at times ) figuring it was just old and had bad seals despite it not having any shaft play before the rebuild, yet by the time I took it off it had pretty bad shaft play. This is within 4 thousand miles mind you. ( Maybe breaking in motor with it killed it.)

The E316g is on... Still smokes... The exact same amount as 14b.. No shaft play.
I even checked compression, that was good, no blow by, broke engine in on the motoman technique and sealed rings very well. Even went as far as putting a 3dollar fuel filter in the vacuum hose that goes from the head to the intake arm to try and catch oil and it doesnt get any oil in there but a few drops....... Yet I still smoke on a new turbo....
Put about 25 miles on the e316g while smoking... But didnt boost hardly any to try not to hurt it.
Now its getting frustrating....

Time to start trying to fix the issue...
I have real high oil pressure so figured that could be pushing too much oil to the turbo..
Yet i dont see why because im tapped to the head in stock configuration and plenty run to the housing without b/s... I ported the relief valve... Dropped pressure a good amount...
Didnt change smoking issues...

Then i dropped the turn return line... &*%$%#@ found silicone covering a little bit of the exit and entry holes to the turbo drain line... I know just the slightest bit can cause a issue and restrict oil flow... I cleaned it and cleared the restrictions in the drain line and put it back on... Smoked less but still smoked.(Didnt smoke on idle or partial throttle anymore.)

Then i started reading about how crankcase pressure (which i dont think i have much of ) can affect turbo return tube flow... I noticed my pcv was bad.. I changed it...
Bam stopped smoking after about 4 or 5 pulls... ( With a friend watching me go back and forth )
Three hrs later....
*&^%$# started smoking again after driving around happy that it wasnt.

Didnt smoke nearly as bad as before, but still trailed a bit of whiteish blue smoke out the tail pipe, not enough for me to see driving until I floor it, but enough that its a little excessive still. ( Had a friend drive so I could see it.) Smokes more on deceleration
and soon as you punch ( even if just for a momment) the gas a steady stream of smoke comes out, then keeps coming out 3 to 4 seconds after youve let off. Still no shaft play at all. . . . Then i noticed my oil pressure had went back up to what it was before ( as if I never ported the relief valve. Perhaps the oil pressure going back up higher made it smoke AGAIN??)
Maybe relief valve spring not compressing.
Some info on that, the relief valve before porting, warm idled on the last blue line before the red on the gauge, and 4k and up was in the red zone on stock gauge. After porting it warm idled on the middle blue line in the gauge and never quite touched the last blue line before the red. Now its idling on the 2nd blue line again just a day later, and slightly going over that line while driving but not going much past that line no matter rpm. What the hell...
Not trying to throw out a slew of problems at once, but ithought they could be related....Any ideas.This car is becoming a real nusance like it doesnt want to be fixed.

 

[GVR4592]

It sounds like a combination of problems. The silicone restricting the oil return line could've damaged the turbo. The PCV issue is common and it's best to just eliminate the damn thing and run some hoses to a catch can. The oil pressure issue is probably the oil pressure relief piston getting hung up on a sharp edge left over from porting.

 

[nightspeed87]

It sounds like a combination of problems. The silicone restricting the oil return line could've damaged the turbo. The PCV issue is common and it's best to just eliminate the damn thing and run some hoses to a catch can. The oil pressure issue is probably the oil pressure relief piston getting hung up on a sharp edge left over from porting.

That was quick...
Well everything you said made sense and could all be possible...
First when you said the silicone restricting the oil return line couldve damaged the turbo
explain how so, and damaged the 16g already (hope not) or are you implying couldve been what damaged the 14b... Or both... Ive been told that the turbo wont really get damaged from getting too much oil but from getting too little... The silicone wasnt like oozed over the drain line but it still was a little bit in the flow path.

Now for the pistons getting hung up in the relief valve, perhaps.
I just pulled the bolt out and the spring and piston out ( with it still bolted up to the car, didnt feel like taking it all down again, and draining fresh oil again )
But i was able to pull it out pretty easily. I checked it out and put it back in and thats when i was saying that it started idling and driving ( any rpm) at the same spot ( which is the last blue line on the stock gauge before red zone )
Before pulling it out, it was idling on that blue line, yet still going into redzone, as did before porting. Kind of retarded. Maybe I will take the whole damned thing off again and report it even bigger and smoothen the edges even more I guess. Youd figured all that pressure would make it push back reguardless though, especially if I was able to pop it out from its backside with a small flat head while still on the car. (90s oil filter housing..)

 

[nightspeed87]

Oh and to add, the funny thing is is that I dont smell a burning smell of oil when I tap the gas and smoke belches out. Before after a while id use to be able to smell it actually burning. I dont smell nothing anywhere, and cleaned out my intercooler pipes and intercooler with gasoline, had hardly NO oil in it at all, its all going straight thru exhaust...
Well at least so far...
One other theory im left to believe is that I have 3months worth of oil residue that still needs to burn its way out of the exhaust system.
Ever since i got my 3in turbo back put on ( 2 months ago ) When i first start it up in the mourning it splats black drops all over the drive way floor while its still warming up. Soemtimes it does it more than other times.. Sometimes not at all..
To add I have 850cc injectors with walbro 190 and evo8mass air sensor controlled by a keydiver chip for those settings.. But i dont think its unburnt fuel because doesnt have a smell...Was thinking maybe condensation? Water covered in black exhaust soot, or raw oil... I know, one problem at a time but could this be related? ( Probably not )

 

[GVR4592]

If the silicone was barely protruding into the oil return passage, it most likely didn't cause any problems. If the oil return does get blocked, it will damage the turbo seals.

I'm still leaning towards excessive crankcase pressure, changing the PCV valve temporarily solved the problem. I would be focusing on that area. I would remove the PCV valve and plug the vacuum line, then go for a drive and see if it helps.

Another thing to think about is the valve stem seals. Sometimes bad valvestem seals will cause a lot of smoking problems. A good way to diagnose them is to decelerate down a hill in gear and quickly tap the accelerator. If you get a puff of smoke when you tap the accelerator, it's most likely bad valve stem seals.

 

[nightspeed87]

I really dont think i have much crank case pressure, no dip stick ever blowing out, no oil in my little 3 dollar fuel filter hooked to the vacuum line to the intake arm from the valve cover, ( which leads me to believe not valve stem seals either ) or wouldnt that be full of oil from either of those issues.

My current theory based off of what you said last time, is the oil relief valve piston is getting stuck, because my oil pressure is way back up to were it was before i ported the relief valve, and it getting stuck is the only thing that makes sense, i mean to give you an idea, at warm idle this thing is at the last blue line on the stock gauge before the red zone... AT IDLE, basically more than 3/4s the gauge...
I think the oil pressure is way too high, even for the head.
To me the car smokes way worse when the pressure is high, because when the smoking had calmed down the car still had the good ported relief valve oil pressure... Thats all I can come up with. Im dropping the oil relief tommorow and I may slightly enlarge the tube the piston rests in to make sure it doesnt get hung up or anything not letting it move back.
And with taking the pcv out the head wont that spray oil out that hole if I leave it out? ( Going to try that too.)

 

[nightspeed87]

Also im considering upgrading to a bigger braided return hose that will allow more oil to flow out the turbo at all times... Anyone can link me to one.?

 

[nightspeed87]

Ok new info now...
I dropped the oil relief valve again ( getting good at it now, didnt even have to take off crank pulley and belt this time )
And made sure the piston was moving up and down... It was, and I cleaned the edges of the porting up and what not to make sure its sliding correctly.

Then I put it back on and put new oil and started it... Still same results..
The stock gauge shows cold, and warm idle sitting at the 2nd blue line and driving in the redzone and last line... So now its starting to get fishy. I opened the screw where the relief valve piston is in ( while still on motor ) and took the spring and piston on completely ( I know this isnt safe drops pressure too low im sure. )
And started it like that, and the damn stock gauge showed the same thing STILL
yet the oil press light came on and i shut it off immedialtey. ( It was only running like that for literally 20 seconds and i didnt rev it. No issues arose from doing that)

Then i put the spring and piston back in the relief valve hole and now im sure my stock gauge is just coo coo. Will hooked up a mechanical soon since I have no idea was my oil pressure is even remotely like...

If the silicone was barely protruding into the oil return passage, it most likely didn't cause any problems. If the oil return does get blocked, it will damage the turbo seals.

I'm still leaning towards excessive crankcase pressure, changing the PCV valve temporarily solved the problem. I would be focusing on that area. I would remove the PCV valve and plug the vacuum line, then go for a drive and see if it helps.

Another thing to think about is the valve stem seals. Sometimes bad valvestem seals will cause a lot of smoking problems. A good way to diagnose them is to decelerate down a hill in gear and quickly tap the accelerator. If you get a puff of smoke when you tap the accelerator, it's most likely bad valve stem seals.

I took off the pcv valve again, and then blew in it and played with it a little and then stuck it back in but not as tight and it stopped smoking...??? Yea I dont know anymore.
Im sure the smoking will return though. This car is too dramatic and unstable to be a DD.
May need to mod the pcv.

 

[gsxtacy]

Was the Cylinder head rebuilt to OEM Brand New Spec?

If not, I second valve stem seals.

I know it sucks to blow smoke and look foolish, but if its not Mosquito Fogging you might just drive it till you can pull the head and freshen it up proper.

 

[nightspeed87]

Was the Cylinder head rebuilt to OEM Brand New Spec?

If not, I second valve stem seals.

I know it sucks to blow smoke and look foolish, but if its not Mosquito Fogging you might just drive it till you can pull the head and freshen it up proper.

No as i mentioned the entire engine was rebuilt it wasnt valve stem seals as I mentioned eariler i had already checked for that, it wasnt rings being improperly sealed, its not the turbo seals being shot because new turbo and no play, and i cleaned out the drain tube, so thats why i was leaning on oil pressure and pcv related stuff. Now learning its not oil pressure related either since I ported the relief valve twice ( bad gauge and or sending unit on that part, hooking up my mechanical gauge again soon)

and GVR4592 you were right with the thoughts towards the pcv because so far the only thing thats making a difference with lessing the smoking is pcv related so im going to try to find a way to eliminate as much crank case pressure as I can and im still going to upgrade my turbo return line also to help it out even further.
Out of ten...Before doing all this stuff it smoked a 9 out of 10
and now its a 4 out of 10 just to let you know the difference im seeing in smoke.

Thanks for the help and opinions for the two who actually took the time to reply in my thread....

 

[GVR4592]

I think it's time to get a real oil pressure gauge. The stock one isn't very accurate to begin with, and your's seems to be not working at all.

I wouldn't get a braided return line, they're a pain in the ass and they usually don't fit very well. I've tried almost every combination of oil return lines available and the FP kit is by far the best I've used.

http://store.forcedperformance.net/...P&Product_Code=FPMODT&Category_Code=DSM-Turbo

Now is a good time to eliminate the PCV valve and go with a catch can setup, since it seems to be a major contributor to the smoking issue.

 

[nightspeed87]

I think it's time to get a real oil pressure gauge. The stock one isn't very accurate to begin with, and your's seems to be not working at all.

I wouldn't get a braided return line, they're a pain in the ass and they usually don't fit very well. I've tried almost every combination of oil return lines available and the FP kit is by far the best I've used.

http://store.forcedperformance.net/...P&Product_Code=FPMODT&Category_Code=DSM-Turbo

Now is a good time to eliminate the PCV valve and go with a catch can setup, since it seems to be a major contributor to the smoking issue.

Thanks for the heads up on that ( saved me some trouble im sure. )
I will take your word for the fp piece then. Is the fp return hose bigger in diameter than stock? Is it flexable, easily kinked?

Funny all the loops I took to source out my problem(s). The process of elimination works but for my situation was a little too dramatic ...

Now i need a little better understanding on what you have in mind for the pcv set up.
Ive read on streetcars its not good to completely eliminate the pcv, as it will dirty the oil quicker and sometimes not cause enough vaccum to literally suck the gases out. Perhaps i was blowing boosted pressure into the crankcase... The old pcv was leaky... What about a check valve, Im hearing this works good.?
Im still learning so correct me if im wrong, but im supposing you mean just running a line off the actual pcv valve to a filter hung down below the car in the air stream?

( I have a 3 dollar fuel filter on the valve cover ventiallation that goes to the intake hose.Do you suggest something like that, or one of those fancey aftermarket catch cans. Or like a little customized home made catch can?)

 

[nightspeed87]

Well the car still smokes....



The evo3 has zero shaftplay...

I then removed the exhaust manifold to check for oil leakage around the ports ( in checking for bad valve stem seals)... Funny thing is there was oil residue on the back of the ex mani gasket but none in the ports, i even felt around in there for any signs of oil and none found... ( Didnt check intake ports.)

So now im getting stumped to what it is even though i feel like ive eliminated most possibilities except bad rings, or valve stem seals at this point...
2k miles ago compression was perfect but dont know how it is now. I need to do a leak down test but havent yet...The car pulls too good to be bad rings I think, but a crack oil ring land or something...possible...

It doesnt smoke at idle at all but it misses every once and a while at idle barely noticable miss, but im actually assuming it misses at idle because the exhaust makes a faint popping noise here and there..( I have full 3in exhaust no cat or muffler by the way.)

Well It smokes pretty bad under decelleration, and even worse under boost. The smoke never looks blue ( like most burning oil sympthoms appear ) The Smoke is always grayish looking....

A leakdown test would be my best bet i know, but will be at least another week before I can by the tester, in the meantime, Any opinions, help, or experiences with this most ANNOYING and stressful issue...?

And im going to redo this thread topic in the newbies section i am getting no bites here...

 

[91-gsx]

I had the same problem once. I thought it was the turbo in the beginning and even rebuilt it. After changing it and putting it back on, it still smoked. It turned out to be my valve stem seals. I changed them without taking the head off or anything. Took the timing belt off and rotated every cylinder to the top using the crankshaft bolt. Then you can change each one without worry of them falling through because they will hit the cylinder before they fall through. This is the way I did it and people told me of this method as well, doesn't mean you have to do it this way. I'm just saying you don't have take the head off to change them. I would also say a good indicator of the valve stems seals leaking is when you take the exhaust manifold off and you can see oil buildup on the exhaust valves. The buildup on my valve stems was black and it was caked on there a good amount considering nothing is supposed to be on there.
hope this helps