97 Eclipse blows blue-ish smoke then stops

[NeWyoRksPLaYaZ]

Hello everyone, every morning before I go to school, when I start my car from a cold start it seems to blow a very light tint of blue in the exhaust smoke..is lik grey with a very very light hint of blue in it but after 2-4 mins it blows the regular white smoke and then once it gets closer to operating temps all smoke goes away. It dosnt seem to be burning oil and doesn't seem to be losing coolant either. Possible causes?

 

[BogusSVO]

Sounds like bad valve stem seal for the blue.

The white could be from moisture in the exhaust getting burnt off, or just the catalic converter doing its job.

 

[SkyGrowsCold]

In my opinion it sounds like your valve seals are starting to go bad. The blue smoke on startup usually happens after the car has been off and sitting for a while and the oil seeps past the seal and upon startup is burned off in the power stroke of the engine (your light blue smoke) until no more oil remains and you get your typical exhaust fumes again (your regular white smoke).

Edit: Bogus beat me to it.

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

^ Nailed it

Likely you have small amounts of oil seeping into the combustion chamber overnight when it sits via bad valve seals - well...going bad valve seals. When you crank the car the oil is burnt off, and then the moisture in the exhaust is burnt off which is common with lowering temperatures at this time of year.

Start saving up for some new valve seals.

 

[NeWyoRksPLaYaZ]

How much do valve seals usually go for? And how bad\hard is labor on it? Thanks for the info guys

 

[SkyGrowsCold]

Reference EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts for your pricing and I thought it was fairly easy although I did have the head off the car. There are a few discussions on replacing them while the head is on the car. Here is write up I found doing a quick search http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...1-head-block-valve-stem-seal-replacement.html I can't comment on it as like I mentioned I had changed them while reassembling my cylinder head.

 

[BogusSVO]

Seals from the parts store will be in the $25-$40 range, You may check with a supporting vendor and see how much a head set of gaskets are.

Now changing them on the car is the challange.

Check in the tech section, there are a few write ups on how to do it.

Personally, I would just drive it untill it got worse or there was a reason to pull the head.

 

[SkyGrowsCold]

Personally, I would just drive it untill it got worse or there was a reason to pull the head.

I completely agree with this not to mention I have a lot respect for pretty much all information Bogus hands out.

 

[NeWyoRksPLaYaZ]

Well the parts are looking pretty cheap if they're under $60..ill ask around a few shops and see how uch labor would be. I would like to fix all isues before the weather gets bad out. So slowly I'm fixing the minor problems. So if I'm driving and ar is warmed up, its not majorly damaging anything correct? Since there is no blue smoke coming out?

 

[bryanwheat]

IF you have the right spring compressor than they are a breeze to change while in the car. Pull the timing cover and belt, pull the cams and rockers. You will put the cylinder that you are working with at tdc so that the valve doesn't fall into the cylinder.

This one is alright if you have someone helping you to hold it

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I prefer this one though. IT will actually hold the spring in place by itself

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[SkyGrowsCold]

So if I'm driving and car is warmed up, it's not damaging anything correct? Since there is no blue smoke coming out?

Fixed your quote up a bit. Correct no damage just extra lubrication in the cylinder on startup . As long as you’re not billowing out smoke and it's just on startup, which tends to point to bad seals, you're good to go just continue on with your usual oil level inspections.

 

[NeWyoRksPLaYaZ]

Ya sorry aout missing ltters, trying to hide my phone from professors . Thanks for the info man I appreciate it. As long as I'm not doing any damage for time being until I can repair it

 

[XiKeiyaZI]

Yeah, it's not something that's going to cause your engine to detonate overnight. My best friend has been driving his GST with terrible valve stems for a couple of years now just because he doesn't have the motivation to change them. It smokes at idle constantly. Hell, my first DSM did the same and it's still driving to this day. The engine sat for 5 years before I got it - changed the timing belt and basic upkeep - and the current owner drives the hell out of it.

I think you're fine. Just start saving up and once you get to the point where you are going to do something like... say replace your timing belt, go ahead and pull the head and do some basic upgrades as well as replace your head gasket. It'd also be a perfect time to work the head over in any way you'd like at this point. Maybe some lumpy cams or gold plate the head. Who knows?

 

[NeWyoRksPLaYaZ]

Haha sounds good bud, thank u for the comforting words . Ill start saving up so hopefully by spring I can get it done up

someone recommended to use auto tranny fluid, dex 3. to put in half a quart into motor oil...good idea?

 

[Raab1]

What did you end up doing? I have the same thing going on. Thanks!

 

[Turbo2g]

What did you end up doing? I have the same thing going on. Thanks!

That thread was from Dec. 2011. Probably not gonna see the same guys on here.

 

[Raab1]

Alright, figured it was worth a shot

 

[chrysler kid]

Alright, figured it was worth a shot

It' a typical bad intake valve seal issue. When cold the rubber is hard and contracted, as it gets warmer the rubber expands and seals better and the smoking goes away

Eventually the problem will get worse and it will smoke all the time.

My exhaust valve seals have the opposite problem, in when oil temps are low it hardens the rubber enough to prevent any leaks into the valve, when oil temps are hot the seal expands too much and is causing oil leaking into the exhaust and causing high crank case and valve cover pressure

 

[Raab1]

Yeah that's kind of what I figured and what I was afraid of. I wonder if I have a problem with both because I can see some seems like oil seepage on my exhaust manifold on the farthest right cylinder as you are looking at it. I'll have to do some research and see if it's something I can try to do myself hopefully without taking off the head or if I need to take it in to a shop, if that's the case then I almost just as well have the head built and throw some cams in while it's out. I appreciate the input!

 

[97egl]

Yeah that's kind of what I figured and what I was afraid of. I wonder if I have a problem with both because I can see some seems like oil seepage on my exhaust manifold on the farthest right cylinder as you are looking at it. I'll have to do some research and see if it's something I can try to do myself hopefully without taking off the head or if I need to take it in to a shop, if that's the case then I almost just as well have the head built and throw some cams in while it's out. I appreciate the input!

If you just want the car to not smoke an dont plan on keeping it for a long time you can try throwing a bottle of lucas oil stabilizer in it. It's really sticky and will help keep oil from running past the seals and down the valve stems. The oil on your exhaust mani wouldnt be from the stem seals. It would be an external leak, probably the valve cover

 

[Raab1]

Awesome that is actually a huge help! I will give that a shot for sure. I do plan on having this car for a long time however I am just trying to get it running and driving right, trying to fix everything all the previous owners have done to it and put things back to normal and then start making it how I want so in the meantime I would prefer it not to smoke like crazy and then I can rebuild the head at a later time. Thanks again!

 

[chrysler kid]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/valve-stem-seals.514438/

An extremely worn and torn exhaust valve seal can cause oil to leak out from the bottom of the exhaust manifold gasket, or show oil leaking from the turbo to 02 housing gasket. The worst I've seen was from a damaged valve stem eating a valve seal causing that much oil to leak into the exhaust

 

[97egl]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/valve-stem-seals.514438/

An extremely worn and torn exhaust valve seal can cause oil to leak out from the bottom of the exhaust manifold gasket, or show oil leaking from the turbo to 02 housing gasket. The worst I've seen was from a damaged valve stem eating a valve seal causing that much oil to leak into the exhaust

Huh? I would have thought that the oil would all just get burned off in the manifold. I don't run exhaust valve seals on my track cars and they puff smoke on start up and if you rev after idling but i've never seen any oil come out of the exhaust manifold gasket. I've never looked close either tho. I'll have to look closer. I'm curious now. Of course it's a totally different engine so maybe differences in gasket material too.

Good to know for when i do my 4g63 track car. I'll have to keep it wiped clean so i dont have issues with fire!

 

[chrysler kid]

Here's a trick you can try for yourself. Clean out the intake and exhaust valves with brake cleaner so you dry out and break and destroy every one of your valve stem seals. Your whole neighborhood will hate you after a few minutes

Fyi, the angle of the head on the 4g63, and the design of the valve spring seats, allow oil to pool at the base of the valve springs on the exhaust. Ive also seen quite a few late model turbo bmws blowing smoke lately under high vacuum conditions

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